1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Need new tires, old tires never rotated

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by ArtM, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. ArtM

    ArtM New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    8
    1
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I am taking over my parent's 2011 Prius, and have discovered that they never rotated the tires.

    At 48,000 miles the front tires are now severely depleted, but the rear tires are practically like new.

    My issue:
    1) I would like to reduce the road noise and maybe improve fuel mileage by using the newer style tires that are now available (suggestions are welcome on this), but
    2) I hate to throw away the rear tires, which are still in excellent condition.

    I've thought about trading in the old tires, but I don't think there will be any value in them.

    I've thought of buying two of the newer style tires, but (a) do I put them on the front or back to get the most benefit, and (b) would there be any negative consequences to this (e.g. would it limit my ability to rotate the tires in the future?)

    There is a nearby dealer who has exactly 2 tires that are an exact match for my rear tires.$200 installed and aligned.
     
  2. Munpot42

    Munpot42 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    1,391
    543
    0
    Location:
    Santa Monica, Ca. 90405
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Logic would dictate going to that dealer and buying the two tires. Then putting up with the noise while counting the money you have saved. A Prius will never be a quiet ride, just turn up the radio.
     
  3. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,795
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    If you can afford it?
    I think I'm going to say just get new tires.

    Because...
    If your parents never rotated the tires, I'm assuming these are 5 year old OEM tires, with 48,000 miles on them, front and back.
    The compounds in tires age, even when they aren't necessarily showing wear.

    For safety reasons, and just to get a fresh start, and NOT have to worry about which tires were "new" and which were the 5 year old ones, I think I'd invest into a whole set.

    BUT...
    I'll caveat my advice with the admission that I look at tires as a safety issue, which means that I'm usually FOR investment.

    Which means I look at your situation like this.
    Worst case scenario you buy 4 new tires and start out fresh with new rubber on the road.
    "Maybe" you part ways with 2 tires that "might" have some life left.
    But this scenario is the only one that allows you 100% confidence in all 4 tires. This is important enough to me, that I would take the hypothetical, and potential loss of value from the 2 aged tires.
     
    PosauneGuy and xpcman like this.
  4. Dion Kraft

    Dion Kraft Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    272
    79
    1
    Location:
    Washington, UT
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The Industry practice is to ALWAYS install the new tires or the most tread in the back. Unless your company policy says otherwise.
    6 Common Tire Myths Debunked
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    48k? might be a case for not rotating.:p
     
  6. ArtM

    ArtM New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    8
    1
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I know how this goes, and will probably answer my own question:

    $200 in savings over 5 years = $40/yr = $3.00/mo

    Every single day I'm listening to that noise, I'll think about how I am saving $3 this month.

    But on the other side, 95% of my driving will be less than 5 miles commute to work

    They're bad. Cord is showing on the left side.

    You know, this matches what the Toyota technician said but it makes no sense - it conflicts with the advice to rotate tires to ensure even wear. This necessarily implies repeatedly moving the tires with LESS tread to the BACK.
     
    #6 ArtM, Feb 9, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2016
  7. Dion Kraft

    Dion Kraft Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    272
    79
    1
    Location:
    Washington, UT
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    That condition is if the tire tread worn is pretty even for all four. When you see that one tire is a lot more worn than the other you have to rotate according to the wear formula. Best tires in rear then forward. Now If any of the tires are at the tread bars or close to it then its either new tires (they go in the back) or used tires which according to their pecking order of tread is decided once more - Best tires in back again.
    Now mind you MANY pro mechanics do not adhere to this practice and I was among those who ALWAYS put the best tires in front due to steering safety. Well after watching the videos where a car could get spun around because of light loaded rear end with marginal tires is a death trap I kinda changed my mind...not easy but logic is logic. When you have been doing this for over 35 years..change is hard lol!
    But its to go forward you must use relentless logic and practice. The bottom line is that what was once is no more so new rules apply.
     
  8. ArtM

    ArtM New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    8
    1
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I am leaning this way, which I guess points up the "true" dilemma - right now, I'm short on cash, but must travel 1000 miles with this car. Over the long term, $500 is not that much money to me, but in the next 2 months it's like the whole world to me.

    Once I get there, I'll almost always be driving in rush hour traffic 5 miles, and road noise will be irrelevant, and safety a much lower consideration.

    But once a month or so, I'll have to deal with wife's expression while we drive from Naples to Miami, in the Prius (that she already hates) of course since it gets much better mileage is newer and more reliable than our old Solara. Of course she'll make that same face no matter what kind of tires are on the car...

    So it sounds like the best approach might be to put new tires on the rear and move the old tires to the front as the front tires wear out.

    This is actually much closer to what I've done with other cars in the past.

    I also thought about the used tires, but if I'm going to invest 100's in the alignment, it won't make sense to go too cheap on the tires.

    Do you think the alignment is that important? If not, I'll go with a $60 set of used tires and run with it...The current tires are showing more inside wear.
     
    #8 ArtM, Feb 9, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,309
    3,586
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    There are some lengthy past threads about the front vs. back debate. I put my new ones up front at the time. However, it might have been a mistake due to noise and perhaps less grip on the 5-yrs old tires, You need to consider that 5-year old rubber may have good tread but the rubber is getting too old.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  10. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,795
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Well the theory behind regular rotations is to try to promote "even" wear. So in theory, you're NOT moving significantly worse tires from front to back, you're trying to keep the set as near equally worn as possible.

    If you doubt the wisdom of putting the best tread on the rear, just go to youtube there are several videos demonstrating the testing.
    But basically it comes down to not wanting to fishtail. The better tread in the back helps prevent this from happening.

    There's some pretty clear demonstrations that show that best tires in back is the way to go.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,474
    38,106
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Yes, look up how to read tire manufacture date, and check yours. They're likely 3~6 months older than the car's manufacture date (assuming these are orig tires). If Tires over 5 years old are getting iffy, depending on exposure to UV for example. Look at the "good" tires up close, for cracking in between the treads. There likely is some starting. If it's fine, they should still be ok, but: my 2 cents: bite the bullet and get 4 new.
     
  12. ArtM

    ArtM New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    8
    1
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Okay, so here's my idea:
    1) The rear tires are aged, with good tread
    2) I want to have have newer, better tires, which are advised to be on the back
    3) I'm trying to save some cash in the short term
    4) I must solve the problem before I take my 1000 mile drive

    So how about this
    - Move the rears to the front
    - SKIP the alignment and let them wear out, since they are old anyway
    - Put good quality tires on the rear using the saved $100 cash, where they will provide good traction and not wear out as much
    - Later, when the edges are cut off the old tires, replace the fronts and get the alignment done.
     
  13. ArtM

    ArtM New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    8
    1
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I don't doubt it, here's what I'm thinking

    1) That in S. Florida driving conditions, it won't normally be a problem (but could be if I'm trying to evacuate during a hurricane)
    2) Talking with a friend, we think this advice is really about lightweight FWD hatchbacks, like the prius. For heavy vehicles, such as large AWD truck, rotation would be more valuable to promote even wear.
     
  14. ArtM

    ArtM New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    8
    1
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks everyone for the good discussion. I'm settled on buying two Michelins today, then two more at a later time.

    Q. In your opinion, does most of the sound come from the front tires or back?
     
  15. FuelMiser

    FuelMiser Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    1,263
    858
    0
    Location:
    Monument, CO
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I never rotate my tires. Just replace all four with new Continental True Contact All Season.
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,474
    38,106
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I'm sceptical the rears are "like new" and "excellent condition", with 48,000 miles. They're no spring chickens time-wise either. Up to you tho.
     
  17. ArtM

    ArtM New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    8
    1
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes, it seems unlikely, but it's true, which is the source of my dilemma.

    Do you think the prius road noise comes mostly from the front tires, or back?
     
    amos likes this.
  18. FuelMiser

    FuelMiser Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    1,263
    858
    0
    Location:
    Monument, CO
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Road noise comes from the worn down tires.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  19. Lucifer

    Lucifer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    1,014
    485
    0
    Location:
    Nh
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    2 new michelin tires are a good start, I prefer the best tread on the tires that steer me, and with front wheel drive you also have the best traction, the front tires are going to be loud if they already have 40,000 miles, leaving them on the rear will allow silence in front, but it's your money.
     
  20. ArtM

    ArtM New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    8
    1
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks Lucifer, and everyone else.

    The tires are being mounted now, with a new alignment, on the front for the 1000 mile drive.

    Next oil change, I'll rotate and see if there is any noticeable noise difference.

    When the old tires start showing wear or cracking, I'll replace them as well. But they are in shockingly good shape, I expect that to be more than 2 years away. Being on the front for daily commuting will allow me to get some of their useful tread life.

    As a note, part of my problem was a misunderstanding about alignments. I thought that the alignment was keyed to the specific tires, and that it would have to be redone any time a different type of tire is installed.