Could the Gen4 Prius Sway Perspective CT200h Buyers?

one thing, the lexus has far superior acceleration, no?

other than that, i am thinking the same thing. plus, prius is larger and more fuel efficient.

i was excited for the lexus, until i saw the size and mpg's. i just wanted a quieter, more comfortable pri, and now it's here.

 

that would be amazing. what would account for the mpg difference, tyres?

 

I had a Lexus ES330 and then an ES350. I wanted to go hybrid and went with the Avalon Limited Hybrid. I cannot tell the difference in fit and finish - or in comfort. The difference is almost entirely contained in the price. I did not look at Lexus at all when it came to replace my 2008 Prius - the Fourth Generation was the one for me.

 

there are still tons of people who floor it from light to light. and plenty of auto writers whose primary concern is 0-60, or quarter mile times. heck, just look at all the whining about the gen 4 in the threads right here, from current owners of gen 2 and 3.

 

When looking at the requirement to go 0 to 60, I always counter with isn't 45 good enough?

 

Could it sway perspective buyers?

Sure.

But that is a way the bar get's raised in the automotive industry as a whole.

"Luxury" features, creature comforts, driving feel improvement...trickle down to more economical, mainstream, utilitarian models. That's how we go from the what seems like Spartan versions of vehicles in one decade, to much nicer, better equipped versions.

The only question becomes how does the bar continue to be raised? Or how does Toyota improve the CT200h, so that it offers a bigger gap between itself and The Gen 4 Prius?

As buyers simply expect more on every level. And as competition between manufacturers offer that reality, I do think this becomes challenging.

Fit and finish offerings, technology advancements in the form of entertainment...

I did recently attend the local auto show and looking at many vehicles from many manufacturers in one setting would tell me, that the homogenization of what is "possible" or offered at every level I do think creates a challenge for automakers in creating a desirable difference between models.

As "lower" models become nicer, the gap between them and more expensive and luxurious vehicles narrows.

This is great for me. As I'm NOT rich. So the improvement of even entry level models, to offer a baseline of extra's and niceties that once were only available on or with much more expensive automobiles is I think a good thing.

Seeing what get's added and improved on the upper end? Well...that's the challenge for automakers and the "fun" thing to watch.

 

The next gen CT200h is due out in about a year. The current CT is based on the Auris and has a shorter wheel base and less back seat leg room than the Prius. Rumor has it that the next gen will be TNGA and based on the gen 4 Prius. That will be the real comparison.

I am waiting for more info on the next CT because I would like some more upscale features such as driver's power seat memory and maybe different styling such as getting rid of the "toilet bowl". If it is based on the new Prius, fuel efficiency, build quality, handling, etc. should be improved over the gen 1 CT. I wouldn't, however, like what has become the typical Lexus grille.

Here is a link: Next-Gen Lexus CT 200h Could Arrive In 2017, Use Prius Platform

Here is another: 2018 Lexus CT | News, Rumors, Specs, Performance | Digital Trends

I'm even wondering if the next CT will be available with E-four, since the added price would be within Lexus buyers range. Could the next CT be the answer for those who are disappointed with some aspects of the new Prius (but at a higher price)?

 

Well it really depends on what people want. I test drove a Lexus many years ago when I bought my last car and didn't care for it which is why I probably didn't even think of it this time even though it is the same company. But I think my priorities have also changed over the years in terms of I'd rather have more gas mileage and other non-tangible things. Although I live in a widely diverse place where you see various cars from hooptis and beaters to cars that are easily in the 6 figure range but I prefer to stay on the low key side of things and I think Toyota keeps me there.

Anyway, after coming from a 'luxury' sedan, the Prius does feel pretty comparable to my old car in terms of feel and driving experience although obviously it is much more advanced with all these cameras and what nots. There are some things I miss that would be nice to have in the Prius but it isn't enough to be a make or break for buying it.

 

Only whining about the horrendous booty and white plasticky bits inside.... But technologically Gen 4 rocks! Perhaps a mid-cycle "booty reduction" makeover could sway me

 

Did I miss something, or did you just describe the NX? TNGA vs RAV4, I know, but the end result would come out inconveniently similar, wouldn't it?



merged

This would make a lot of sense. With the launch of Scion's iM, the CT200h's humble Auris roots are becoming harder to hide from U.S. buyers. A TNGA-derived CT200h could wrap aerodynamically effective but still Lexus-styled hatchback sheetmetal around the Prius drivetrain, add lots of Lexus-grade ride-smoothing and sound-deadening, properly lux up the interior (ignoring the Prius team's tone-deaf efforts that aimed for a B&O vibe and wound up looking like a high-tech bidet), maintain or improve rear seat legroom and cargo space, and give up a few MPG. A compact, 45-mpg (a bit less if they want to up the power ante a skosh) hatchback with Lexus-grade accommodations for four adults and some gear, maybe throw in E-Four to spare the Lexuscenti from having to carry sandbags in the winter . . . yeah, that would definitely work. I'd love to see it.

Personally, we considered leasing a CT200h as one option for waiting out the wave of new vehicles with electric powertrains coming down the pike, in case the Gen4 seriously disappointed. In the event, the Gen4 didn't and we bought it, but even before that, our sights had moved to a Prius v lease as our potential stop-gap. The CT200h was just too short on cargo and back seat room to serve as our road trip car, and that's a requirement because our other car is a BEV that ain't leaving town.



merged

Okay, now we're repeating it, so I am compelled to speak up. The word we're looking for here is prospective.

Yeah, I know [sigh]. If you need me, I'll be hiding under that table over in the corner . . .

 

Are you saying the CT200h has even less cargo space than the Prius? Which seems to mean it must be a much shorter car than the Prius if it has both less room in the back and less cargo space. I haven't seen one in person myself or if I have, I haven't noticed.

I generally don't worry about back seat space, my last car was pretty useless in that regard but only my dogs rode in my back seat so it didn't matter.

 

Lexus in general are noticeably nicer cars inside and are far quieter on the road. The Lexus dealerships also generally have better service (at higher cost). eg. Some will pick up your car at your workplace for an oil change and return it by the end of the day so you never have to leave your workplace.

I considered the Lexus RX 450h and the Lexus NX 300h and checked them out at the dealer but ended up just waiting for a RAV4 Limited Hybrid. Yeah the Lexus is nicer but you pay through the nose for that luxury and strangely enough the NX Hybrid (which shares an engine with the RAV4 Hybrid) and even the bigger RX Hybrid have less storage than the RAV4 Hybrid.

Yes Lexus also tends to keep its value very well but given the high initial price premium you will always lose more to depreciation in absolute dollars if you buy a Lexus.

So the practical will buy the Toyota, and those who value luxury even at very high cost will choose Lexus. There is overlap in these markets but the pricing is different enough that they are still quite separate overall. There are also other differences in the demographics in that interestingly, most of the people I know who get Lexus cars will lease them through their personal corporations and replace them every three years. Consequently there are huge numbers of 3 year-old Lexus lease returns on the used market. In contrast, the people I know with the RAV4 tend to buy them and keep them. This is personal observation with a limited group of people but I nonetheless think this observation probably holds true to an extent in the wider market.

Ironically, in my case the RAV4 had some other (minor) advantages beside storage space. It's a lighter car than the NX despite having the same engine, and thus has better fuel economy and accelerates faster than the NX. For those who care, the RAV4 Hybrid has a 0-60 of 8.1 seconds. OTOH, I'm told the NX handles better, but I wouldn't know since I never bothered test driving the NX after looking at it (and the sticker price) in person.

 

Eug, that is good to know as our other next car will probably be a Rav4 Hybrid when we get rid of our '00 Rav4. I tried to get rid of it this year when I bought my car but my husband doesn't want to part with it just yet

And yeah I can definitely notice a difference in service between my previous car and Toyota dealership, it is the small things that are niceties but you pay for them. My biggest thing with the Prius Gen4 was that it was quiet on the road as I mentioned my husband has a '00 Rav4 which drives me bonkers due to road noise and it was something that I didn't want to endure even for higher gas mileage.

 

I know we're veering off topic, but I'll just add that two of the complaints of the 2015 and older gas RAV4s were loud cabin noise and overly stiff rear suspension. Both of these have been addressed with the 2016 line, including the Hybrid. People who have driven both say the suspension is more comfortable in the 2016, and the cabin noise is noticeably less.

However, as mentioned, judging by my previous experiences with Lexus vehicles, the RAV4 Hybrid is still noticeably louder than the Lexus lines.

Back on topic: It's a case of diminishing returns. The Lexus vehicles ARE better in many regards, but you pay a LOT to get that extra stuff, most of which is unnecessary. In terms of safety though, you can now get all the nice safety features in Toyotas, like blind spot monitoring and lane departure alert, etc.

 

Yes, it is 5 inches shorter than the gen 3 Prius, 7 inches shorter than the gen 4 Prius. Cargo space is much less.

 

Yes, noticeably less. It's basically the same platform as the Scion iM, but I think a little tighter for style and equipment reasons (similar to what's been described here for the NX vs RAV4).