Gen4 vs Gen3 - a detailed comparison of tested measured parameters

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by pakitt, Apr 8, 2016.

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  1. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    I have already in the past referred to italian magazine Quattruoruote which is one of the oldest in Italy in terms of car reviews and testing.
    In particular I posted about differences between Gen2 and Gen3 in terms of speed, acceleration, breaking distances, etc. (see here) measured by them.

    Quattruote has published a complete review of the Gen4 with detailed tables about the performance and overall behavior (noise levels, braking performance, among others), which hopefully have been tested in the same or very similar way as the tests they did back in 2009 on the Gen3.
    Attached a document will all the differences, as I don't know how to create a table here... ;)
    (If anybody knows how to make a table in a post and wants to covert the file and post it, please do it :) )

    What comes out from looking at the table is that the Gen4 brakes better, is more silent, appears to consume more (although testing method might be different as Quattroruote themselves claim in the article, hence no comparison tables in the magazine with Gen3), practically the same acceleration and has markedly worse pickup times (essentially overtaking takes 1-2 secs longer starting from 70km/h).

    So as I suspected, on paper, the car isn't any faster, is more efficient, and it can be even slower or less responsive on the highway. The Gen3 had some juice left at 130km/h, it seems the Gen4 is a bit more of a slouch.... :(
    14HP less, do make a difference...

    I hope in the end that it will more silent, break better, the fuel consumption is better (because they tested it differently) and that the pickup times are going to be the same as the Gen3, maybe by consuming a bit more (i.e. flooring the accelerator :D).
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 pakitt, Apr 8, 2016
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    thanks! this is with nimh battery?
     
    #2 bisco, Apr 8, 2016
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  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Hmm, mileage seems poor. Lots of red in that department lol. But it is quite a bit quieter (5dB or more).
     
    #3 Tideland Prius, Apr 8, 2016
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  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    I'm puzzled: gen 4 owners are reporting new highs in mpg, some novice, with new car, new tires. Something not adding up?
     
    #4 Mendel Leisk, Apr 8, 2016
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  5. aurelio

    aurelio Member

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    Those figures doesn't look right. Fuelly reports shows that Gen4 fuel consumption gets a combined avg of 23.7km/L with 1km/L margin of error, vs. Gen3 combined avg of 19.23 km/L with 0.07km/l margin of error.

    Also Gen3 cd is 0.25, vs Gen4 cd 0.24. That's a 4% improvement that looks like a -1.4% in those figures. Too much to be a measurement error.

    The numbers must be wrong or there must be big inconsistencies in the methodology.
    con1.PNG con2.PNG
     
    #5 aurelio, Apr 8, 2016
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  6. alekska

    alekska Active Member

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    Please note that the mileage in the document is reported in KM/L so higher numbers are actually lower fuel consumption

    - Alex

    Drag is equal Cross-sectional Area * Cd, so lower Cd does not necessarily mean lower drag

    - Alex
     
    #6 alekska, Apr 8, 2016
  7. aurelio

    aurelio Member

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    #7 aurelio, Apr 8, 2016
  8. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    pakkit you should test G4 for few hrs and you will know everything there needs to be known for MPG :)

    For me personally, no test can show how much better driving position/seat is... much, much better... i want to drive it to see, i assume it will be nice. maybe next week.
     
    #8 spwolf, Apr 8, 2016
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it could be that the test doesn't show as well as real mpg.
     
    #9 bisco, Apr 8, 2016
  10. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    Thanks for all your comments.
    As I noted the magazine itself noted that changes in the testing methodology since 2009 did not allow them to post any comparisons between gen3 and gen4. For the same reason I still listed their results and posted a note in the document to warn they look too weird.
    The other ones look quite consistent with all reports and the feeling I got when I test drove it a while back.
    Yes, it is the NiMH version, the only type of battery sold in EU to my knowledge on all trims.
     
    #10 pakitt, Apr 8, 2016
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  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yeah but after reading it again, Pakitt said that the testing methodology is different so the numbers can't be directly compared.

    I understand that. It doesn't change the fact that the difference is in the red (worse than Gen 3) rather than green (Better than Gen 3). No matter, as Pakitt said the testing methodology is different so the numbers can't be directly compared for fuel economy.

    :oops: Shouldn't have read your post so fast. :oops:
     
    #11 Tideland Prius, Apr 8, 2016
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  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Can you provide more information about the specific model they tested and test conditions? Any technical details will help me correct my EPA roll-down graph.
    Parameter Unit of measure Gen3 Gen4 Delta Gen4 vs Gen3
    1 Weight of tested vehicle Kg 1534 1531 -3
    2 Max speed Km/h 181.536 188.203 6.667
    3 Odometer error at 130km/h % 4.5 4.2 -0.3
    4 Fuel consumption at 90km/hi (56 mph) Km/L (MPG) 26.8 (62.98) 24.9 (58.515) -1.9
    5 Fuel consumption at 100km/h (62 mph) Km/L (MPG) 23.4 (54.99) 22.4 (52.64) -1
    6 Fuel consumption at 130km/h (81 mph) Km/L (MPG) 15.4 (36.19) 15.4 (36.19) 0
    7 Fuel consumption at 150km/h (93 mph) Km/L (MPG) 11.7 (27.495) 11.9 (27.965) 0.2
    8 Resistance at 100km/h KW 12.9 14.3 1.4
    9 Efficiency at 100km/h % 34.5 35.7 1.2
    10 Average fuel consumption in city Km/L (Km driven) 29.4 (1324) 26.6 (1142) -2.8 (-182)
    11 Average fuel consumption in sub-urban Km/L (Km driven) 21.3 (957) 20.1 (865) -1.2 (-92)
    12 Average fuel consumption in highway (max speed limit 130km/h) Km/L (Km driven) 13.7 (616) 16.4 (881) +2.7 (+265)
    13 Calculated average Km/L (Km driven) 21.9 (985) 20.5 (881) -1.4 (-104)
    14 Official Toyota Declared Combined Average Km/L (Km driven) 25.0 (985) 30.3 (1303) +5.3 (+318)
    15 MFD error % 6.4 5.8 -0.6
    16 Acceleration 0-60 km/h Seconds 5 4.9 -0.1
    17 Acceleration 0-100 km/h Seconds 11.3 11.1 -0.2
    18 Acceleration 0-130 km/h Seconds 18.9 18.6 -0.3
    19 Acceleration 0-160 km/h Seconds 30.6 31.4 0.8
    20 400m Sprint Seconds 18 17.8 -0.2
    21 400m Sprint exit speed Km/h 127 127.5 0.5
    22 1km Sprint Seconds 32.6 32.5 -0.1
    23 1km Sprint exit speed Km/h 164.1 161.8 -2.3
    24 Pickup 70-100km/h (min/max load) Seconds 5.8/6.4 6.4/6.7 +0.6/+0.3
    25 Pickup 70-120km/h (min/max load) Seconds 10.6/11.8 11.5/12.1 +0.9/+0.3
    26 Pickup 70-140km/h (min/max load) Seconds 16.8/18.9 18.4/19.7 +1.6/+0.8
    27 1km starting from 70km/h Seconds 28.3 29 0.7
    28 1km starting from 70km/h exit speed Km/h 166.1 159.4 -6.7
    29 Breaking distance at 100km/h (cold start) Meters (g) 46.4 (0.85) 42.5 (0.93) -3.9 (+0.08)
    30 Breaking distance at 130km/h (cold start) Meters (g) 76.6 (0.87) 71.0 (0.94) -5.6 (+0.07)
    31 Breaking distance at 100km/h (half dry tarmac + half cobbles) Meters (g) 52.2 (0.75) 48.7 (0.81) -3.5 (+0.06)
    32 Breaking distance at 100km/h (wet tarmac + simulated iceiii) Meters (g) 113.8 (0.35) 119.7 (0.33) +5.9 (-0.02)

    • At 93 mph (150km/h) - the Gen-3 engine runs out of cooled EGR and has to use fuel enrichment. This does NOT change the MAF value but just the injector timing goes a little longer. The engine tunes to a cooler but richer mixture.
    Now we have enough to plot the minimum, average, and maximum MPG as a function mph:
    [​IMG]
    I've adjusted the 'E-factor' (aka., engineering factor) to scale the graphs to match three credible metrics. I'm waiting to rent a 2016 and add a set of low-end of tests and some overhead metrics.

    Ok, using these metrics and my understanding of the EU models, I've updated these charts:
    [​IMG]

    For our metric friends:
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    #12 bwilson4web, Apr 9, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
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  13. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    so how was mpg during your tests?
     
    #13 spwolf, Apr 9, 2016
  14. chenderson2

    chenderson2 Member

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    I don't know if there are vast differences between various cars of the same model and year, so I can't say my experience is standard, but there is just no comparison between my Gen 3 and my Gen 4 in mpg. The range I got with my Gen 3 was between 38 and 46 mpg. The Gen 4 is getting a consistent mpg of 60+. As indicated by the chart above, the mpg does decrease with the increase in speed. Driving below 55 mph, I get from 67 to 78 mpg, depending upon how many stops I have to make. As I go above 55, the mpg goes consistently down. At 65 mph, I get about 60 mpg.
     
    #14 chenderson2, Apr 9, 2016
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  15. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    My experience was that it consumed about 15-20% less fuel on the same stretch of road with the same temperature. I have a complete record of my commutes to work since 2011 and I could compared pretty well.
    Considering I was testing things here and there, and that I had winter tires (it had just snowed, 0C/32F) with who knows what pressure and the car was brand new (300km only) I'd say it looks interesting to say the least and with lots of room for improvement.
    The Gen4 here is rated 20% more efficient in fuel consumption to the Gen3 (3,3L/100km vs 4,0L/100km - 71mpg vs 59mpg).
    What I got in the trips to and from work where 4,4L/100Km and 3,9L/100Km (i.e. 53mpg and 60mpg respectively).
    For reference, at the same temperature range on the same route from work back home and the same average speeds, I get with the Gen3 an average of 4,3 (54.7mpg) with a min of 4,2 (56mpg) and a max of 4,6 (51mpg).
    But, to be honest, I am getting the Gen4 for the better sound insulation, better more modern looks, and modern tech inside and for safety. Not really for fuel consumption.
    I will see how it really is, and I will give you guys plenty examples (I have a wide collection of trips recorded with temps, average speeds and average fuel consumptions) to compare the Gen4 to Gen3 quite directly... :)
    They tested a 17" wheel (tires: Toyo NanoEnergy R41 215/45 R17 87W) version fully loaded with leather seats and all bells and whistles (it is called in Italy "Style").
    I don't really have anything else to add. They don't mention the temperature at which they made the tests. I'd say anything between 0C and 10C considering the location of the tests (Vairano, near Pavia) and the month (end of Feb.).
     
    #15 pakitt, Apr 10, 2016
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  16. Hoddie

    Hoddie Member

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    On a road trip to Croatia in 2015 I took the opportunity of being on the German motorway to accelerate our 2006 Prius up to 185km/h. Felt I could have pushed it further, sadly the wife saw the speed and politely suggested (read: demanded) I slow down. I hope your post isn't suggesting that the Gen4 I just bought (but not yet had delivered) will struggle above 130!
     
    #16 Hoddie, Apr 10, 2016
  17. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    Well, when I tested it, it was at 0C, with almost empty battery and brand new (no break-in) and it felt, like Gen3 in the same situation, a tad slow. Probably, I realize now, also because there is less noise, so it seems the car is moving less fast than it really does.

    But the ICE of Gen4 is only one single HP less than then Gen3's engine and the torque is exactly the same (142Nm, but @ 3600rpm in Gen4, instead of 4000rpm in Gen3, which is BETTER :) ), so I think at those high speeds, where the MG2 electric motor brings very little contribution to the push, there will be no noticeable difference.

    I don't expect the Gen4 to be any different than Gen3 in overall performance at German Autobahn high speeds. And it felt secure and fixed on the road, the same or better than Gen3.

    I was only wondering whether it was worse, based on the test numbers which show slower pickup speed values.
    Only daily usage will tell, whenever I am going to get mine. Still no delivery date available to the dealer :cry::(
     
    #17 pakitt, Apr 11, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
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  18. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Sorry, Pakitt, can you confirm 3Gen tested had 195-15" or 215-17"? I have a 2009 portuguese edition Quattruote in my records and they show a 195-15"...
     
    #18 telmo744, Apr 13, 2016
  19. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    215-17" confirmed. That's what they tested with.
     
    #19 pakitt, Apr 13, 2016
  20. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    thank you, your experience is what I expected after reading a lot of reviews, opinions and sitting in the Prius. I also agree that important parts here are tech, looks, interior comfort, seating position as well as TSS+ since Prius already had good consumption but hey, why not get it better when we can. Most of the year, i drive only in the city so Prius would do really good... 3-4 times I go on 100mph 700km trips but most important here is drop in noise of course... and then sometimes i have trips into the country side at 60-80kmh so this new one should be doing rather well there.

    i am liking lighter interior, not sure about the seat pattern in non leather seats. Then again here leather is not that much of an extra price but i would have to get top version.

    There is also a possibility of getting sunroof but with 15" wheels and then get nicer wheels extra.
     
    #20 spwolf, Apr 13, 2016
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