Prime destined to be doa?

prime doesn't really need chad.

 

This pay as you go chargers are just to get you out of a fix. Charging at home is most convenient and cheapest.
You should only charge at home or a supercharger. The group here on Prius chat should move on to a Model 3. The Prime is not for you. Isn't that becoming clear? The Prime is for all of the other people who aren't so jazzed by electric technology and want something more conventional.

 

Jeez bisco, look on youtube for
#NYIAS - 2017 Toyota Prius Prime PHEV 22 Exterior, Interior and Infotainment Overview

It says in both rear windows "prototype"

 

sure, but why does that mean it's not what we're going to get? or, how can we assume it's the hatch space and/or 5th seat that are undecided? i want to see the quotes from toyota officials.

 

I, for one, would.
The quality and performance of the electric drive is worth it.
And the convenience of fueling at home in your garage is a big plus.

However, if an owner finds they need to fuel away from home often, they may have bought the wrong car.

 

I'd guess that the Outlander PHEV's having a 12 kWh battery is for two reasons: First, they weren't designing to US tax laws, and second, it allowed there to be no (apparent, anyway) intrusion by the battery into anywhere - cabin or cargo space.

In any case, reports are that the cheating was only on the Japanese cars, not US or European cars. We'll see if that holds true.

Also, as far as hybrid minivans, it's worth noting that Toyota's actually already figured out how to package one (without a plug, though), but they haven't sold the product in question in the US market (which, I suspect it could become a serious competitor against the Transit Connect, NV200, and ProMaster City, possibly with a powertrain upgrade for more power (it's using the Gen 3 Prius powertrain right now, I believe)) - the Noah/Voxy/Esquire compact minivans:



You stick it under the front seats, and then you don't take up any cargo or passenger space, and you elevate the driver (which is seen as desirable in many cars nowadays).

 

I don't recall seating & utility ever having been associated with one and other. References to the practical nature of Prius were the ability to transport large objects inside. Seats which fold down to offer a vast area for cargo much larger than any sedan's trunk could handle has been what people praise.

Not losing that and gaining 22 mile of EV, along with a variety of tech goodies, and bucket seats rather than bench, sounds like variety added to the Prius line... especially since the body style is different too.

 

You might be disappointed with the Outlander Phev design then. If you need extra power, the battery pack cannot give full energy amperage. The ICE will get fired up for full energy needs like full throttle acceleration.

Wonder if other Phev like Ford and Prime have similar behavior. I know Volt and i3rex don't have to by design.

 

Prime may actually have more power in EV mode than in ICE mode.

Ford's PHEVs have reduced power in EV mode, but the battery isn't the limiting factor, the electric motor is. (Their transmission layout is very similar to the standard, no plug, Gen 4, and therefore don't have a one-way clutch, so peak power output in EV mode is what can be provided by MG2.)

 

Yep, that would be a big negative for me.
Although I don't see me ever buying a PHEV.

 

Nope. The Ford Energi battery peak output is 68 kW but their MG2 is rated for 88 kW. They really are limited by the battery and not the motor.

 

Ah, well then. Although, even if the battery weren't the limiting factor, there would still be a performance degradation from the motor...

 

Assuming the Outlander PHEV gets 25 miles EPA, L3 charging to 80% (before it tapers off and charges much slower) would only yield 20 miles. L3 chargers are still pretty sparse in the US (especially compared to Japan), so I can't imagine Outlander PHEV drivers be willing to wait in line to use CHAdeMO to then have to wait 30 minutes for 20 miles of charging. In addition, cost of L3 charging needs to be taken into consideration as well. NRG EVgo requires a $15 monthly subscription plus a 10 cent per minute use of L3. Assuming it has a 10 kWh usable battery size (I assume it's well below, but I couldn't find the number online), charging to 80% in 30 minutes would be $3 for 8kWh, or $0.375/kWh. I don't think a large portion of PHEV buyers would be willing to spend that much on electricity often in addition to spending an extra $1000 (estimate) for CHAdeMO capability.

 

The way I see it is that you paid to have an ICE on your plug in, you might as well use it when required instead of waiting for a maintenance mode to burn it off.

But the Volt still uses the Cruze platform, and the Bolt, Trax, and Sonic all share the same one.

Toyota made a big ado about their new TNGA platforms being modular and lowering cost, and the Prius being the first model to use it. Yet it appears they are unwilling to use the advantages TNGA supposedly has to provide better battery packaging for the Prime. If GM can put a different floor pan on a Trax for the Bolt's battery, then Toyota should be able to do the same for the Prime.

Those minivans are smaller than American market ones. Then going by the price and fuel economy of the Highlander hybrid, American shoppers likely wouldn't be willing to pay what Toyota wants for them.

The Ford Energi's will blend grid and hybrid, but they have a higher threshold before doing so than the PiP did.

The Prime has two EV modes. One will keep it EV like a Volt, but not up to the max speed of the of the car; it cuts out in the 80'smph. Then there is an EV Auto mode that will let the car blend for better overall efficiency; we don't know the details yet.

I figured it was a cost issue with offering the car nationwide, and Chademo chargers mostly clustered on the West Coast.

 

The CHAdeMO Association does a really poor job of keeping up with new installs. Even then, the last website revision that I could find was for year 2015. Even then, there were well over 800 Nationwide. So by now, that usually means there are over a thousand. Nothing wrong with putting most of the Chargers where most of the people are either. And, since most plugin hev's charge at home, the infrequent use means that the price doesn't affect their overall cost.
.

 

No problem with installing the chargers where most of the cars are sold. But for a PHEV that doesn't need fast DC charging to get people where they need to go in a reasonable time, I wouldn't hold it against the company to not offer it if; they hope to sell the car outside that area, the cost to offer it is deemed too high for the market, and/or using the fast DC chargers cost the same or more than using gasoline.

 

It makes sense in a BMW i3 REX, but not in a Prius Prime or Outlander PHEV.

 

I think volt 2.0 had most things right except their L2 charging at 3.3 kwh. It would have been nice to have 9.6kwh charging like the Outlander Phev. GM said their owners use 110 outlets to charge. :lol:

 

Or at least offer 6.6 kW charging as an option.