Newb with a 2003

Can you explain the purpose of this?

 

The diodes wired to support charging-only provides a way to later add a traction battery charger for plug-in operation during warm-up. It is also a safe way since the battery can not discharge through the diodes except at micr-amp levels. Three diodes are triple protection so even if one shorts, no problem.

Normally the traction battery is at 60% SOC when you park but it can go as high as 80%. So having an external charger, you can bring the cold-start, traction battery up to 70-75% SOC.

When the Prius sees a SOC higher than 60%, it tries to use the traction battery over the engine. When the engine is cold, using the traction battery reduces the amount of gas burned during the warm-up. By the time the SOC is at 60%, the engine should be warmed up enough to be efficient.

The blower, wire-OR means the traction battery can be cooled off before adding a charge and during the charge. Charging NiMH is exothermic, it generates heat and that is death to Prius modules.

Note, I did not include specific instructions because this is a terribly advanced technique.

Bob Wilson

 

Sorry. I am terrible at keeping track of things like this. It is because I pull docs, pics instructions, white papers, etc all the time. I lose most of it after I have read it.I don't know why all my pictures double post


Prius block heater Maybe I can export my PIDs to you from Torque...Wait. The purpose of this is for a charger? It is for concern over parasitic discharge? And please keep in mind that this if used more than a few times will drastically shorten the battery's overall life span. And this charger has no BMS? Why not just install a block heater? I had two on my diesel VW that were on a timer. They'd go on at 6 every morning and off by 6:45. When I would leave. The car was already a few degrees off of fully warm, but the heater already was hot. Seems better than wasting battery cycles.

 

With the mini VCI you can implement an on board charge. The engine will run and use mg1 to charge the HV battery.As far as I know, they don't, but I don't know if this one does or not.I really think the block heater is the best bang for the buck. It slips right in, in about 30 seconds

 

tony2ltr, I own a 2004 Prius that's been having HV battery issues.Do you mind sharing some info on the replacement process? What was the total cost? This seems like the best option; long-term. Granted, it's a lot of work but I'm really surprised no one makes this as a kit. Lithium-Ion battery chemistries generally last longer than NiMH batteries anyways. Plus Li-Ion is widely acessible. Especially, the safer LiFePO4 cells. Interestingly, LiFePO4 nominal voltage would allow for a pack that matches the stock 201.6V

 

You are going to get very good at taking that battery in and out of the car. One member used two eight foot long 2X4's to "walk" the battery out the back of the car.

About 90% of Gen I modules are now junk. New they had 6500 mAh of capacity. Most now have under 2000 mAh of capacity left. It is possible to make a car run on that worn out crap. There is little room for error. You'll get to do it again whenever a module goes from weak to dead.

Measure the resting voltages of every module in your pack and the core you are going to buy. Any that are below 7.2 volts can not be recovered. Do not waste your time trying.

Buy one Reaktor 300W charger. Use light bulbs or simply resistors to deep discharge the modules. Build a cheap LED driver charger. Charge the modules slowly, 500 mA for 6 hours each. It's just silly to put any more than a 3000 mAh charge in a Gen I module. Even that is way more than most of them can hold. Let them sit for a day and use the Reaktor to do a 20 amp discharge to 6 volts. Record the mAh capacity. Hopefully between two packs you can find 38 modules with more than 2000 mAh capacity.

All of this is a losing battle with Gen I batteries. Most of them are too far gone now. The only real solution is a new battery from Toyota.

Brad

 

Yes, I have looked into Enginer but their product converts your Prius into a PHEV. It doesn't actually replace the stock battery, it just works alongside it. Since the stock NiMH is still the primary battery pack, I presume their solution only works so long as the original battery is problem-free.

Here's an example of what I'm thinking
Google "Tweaked Toyota Prius gets 125 mpg - 1.9 litres/100km !" and "Whither, 125 MPG: Toyota Shies From New Prius Battery Tech?"
Note: GAIA bought Lithium Technology Corporation

It's been done before, albeit by a big company. With the tech. advancements in recent years a LiFePO4-based pack would be considerably lighter and cheaper than what Toyota asks for a replacement battery. I've heard arguments like "the financial investment wouldn't be worth it", but the long term investments would be. For one, the battery wouldn't need replacing every 50-80K miles.

I am not an electrical engineer and I don't intend to oversimplify the complexity of such an endeavor but if it's done right, the performance and endurance would be significantly better and it would sell very well.

 

No ENGINER!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh course there is much to be gained by first getting the existing car working. Always time for enhancements later.

Bob Wilson

 

Total cost depends on the place you have it done at. You can try with a gen 2, to replace with Lithium, but you won't do it without setting codes or allowing the network to accept the proper data. That is where the Orion BMS comes in. For gen 2 though, not gen 1.The battery I can get for about 3k. Locally I charge about $600 for verifying the battery condition to make sure it should be replaced, it is best to do this in the car without a carbon pile and data logging harness to chart each cell as it charges or discharges, install the new battery,clear codes, verify repair. I don't know what other places charge to replace the battery. You have to remove all the trunk area covers, and the rear seat. Enginer products are horrible. I have installed many of them and not one stayed functioning for very long. The components have a high failure rate, and while Jack will be all over you to sell a kit, forget about product service or warranty. I have a pile of burned out Enginer parts in the basement. Junk.This is a gen 2 car, not a gen1. Remove all the hatch floor covers, back seat bottom, battery brackets, HV wires (wear HV gloves).
I worked with Jack Chen for years to correct the existing issues he had. Good idea for a car with a good HV battery. Jack left a lot of people high and dry with his junk. He never fixed the problems it had, mostly with BMS and cells going bad.The original capacity of a gen one module is 6 amp hours. If any charging or discharging is done IT CANNOT be without compression! Make sure if you charge any Prius cells that they are within their enclosure. Again, the best equalization charge is the on board charge capability through the mini VCI.

 

You can do that. Unless the battery is bad, it should fire the car right up. Just make sure you have at least one bolt in to ground the case to the body.

 

For what the Gen II and III packs will cost, you might as well buy a new Gen I pack from Toyota.

Yep, that is a want, not a need. It will not restore dead Gen I modules. One Reaktor 300W costs $75. RC Turnigy Reaktor 300W 20A 6S Balance Charger | eBay It will measure the capacity of your modules.

Tampa Prius knows what he is doing. Do not expect him to be excited about rebuilding a Gen I pack in 2016. It really is a losing battle.

Before you do any charging or discharging to either pack,

A resting voltage over 7.2 does not mean the module has any real usable capacity. Those modules are worth testing. How long has each pack been sitting? There is valuable information in the unmolested resting voltage. Under 7.2 volts is non fixable junk. Over 7.2 volts there is a chance.

Until you measure the voltages of all 76 modules in the two packs everything else you do is just wasted effort. If you have more than 38 modules over 7.2 volts you have a chance at building a pack that will work for a little while.



Brad

 

Wow do I have a lot to learn from these guys! Good thread.