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Whether to buy a lower Mileage Gen 2 or higher mileage Gen 3?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by ElectricCarFan, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. ElectricCarFan

    ElectricCarFan Junior Member

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    I'm currently waiting until my lease is up on my current car (2014 Nissan Leaf), and I've decided I will indeed buy a Prius. My lease won't be up until May 18th, 2017. This gives me time to learn more about the Prius and continue to save money. So now that I've established that, I am stuck at a critical mental junction. Upon monitoring Autotrader for the past few months (well actually since my lease began) I've realized that there are a lot of Gen 2 Prius out there on the used market. Unfortunately, I will only have $6,000 ($6,500 tops), but of course I'm going to try to talk the seller down.

    My situation is that I will have $6,000 to spend on a used Prius (either 2nd or 3rd Gen), and with so many Gen 2s out there I have many options for buying a Gen 2. In my local area (within 100 miles radius) there are few Gen 3s in my price range. I've only seen three Gen 3 cars on the list in my price range and the lowest mileage car was at 159,000 miles (the other two Gen 3s are above that).

    Option 1:
    I could buy a Gen 2 Prius. I love the Gen 2 Prius. However, these days all of the Gen 2s are reaching the 8-10 year old mark. I don't have a problem with that, but the Prius holds its resale value like gold. I am finding Prius at the $6,000 level have miles of around 100,000 Miles or more. Prius commands that, even with high mileage. If it were a regular old gas car, you could probably buy an almost new car for that kind of money. But, Prius is what it is: advanced, efficient, high-quality, and built to last. So I only want a Prius (and have for a long time). Before I leased my Leaf I had planned to get a used Prius.

    Recently I've only seen a single Gen 2 Prius that has had 88,000 miles on it and another that had 94,000 miles. Every other Gen 2 Prius on the list is above the 100,000 miles mark. All of them vary of course. I don't think I'd want to get a Prius with more than 130K miles on it (preferably). I'm seeing for sale, mostly 2005, 2006, 2007 model years. I don't have a problem with Gen 2, but I worry about immediately (after buying the car) replacing the Hybrid Traction battery and the Hybrid Transaxle. But, I've heard there's a good chance I may never experience any problems for a good long while, since the Prius runs like a champ (Taxi Fleets being one example).

    Option 2:

    I could buy a super-high mileage Gen 3 Prius (like 150K or more), which would be new in terms of years old. If I went with a Gen 3, I'd get a slightly newer car, but I don't know if the risk of the battery failing is any lower than with an older Gen 2 due to it being higher mileage.

    Is it smarter to buy a Gen 2 around the 100K Miles mark (or maybe slightly less if I get lucky), or a Gen 3 around the 150K-200K mark? I love the looks of the Gen 3, and its more developed and sophisticated Hybrid Synergy Drive.

    But, I want a reliable Prius that I can drive with confidence. Family members have advised me in general (when used car shopping) to look for the lowest mileage on a car and the least amount of years in age. But, my family knows little about Hybrids or EVs. So, I don't know exactly what to think. My grandma (whom I frequently consult and confide in), recommends that I buy a Gen 3 (despite the 150K+ mileage) since it'll be newer in age and styling.

    I don't know, what do you guys think (recommend) I should do?
     
    #1 ElectricCarFan, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  2. Kevin_Denver

    Kevin_Denver Active Member

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    When I was looking for a used Prius, I found that the 3rd gen were significantly higher in cost, so I ent for the most recent 2nd gen I could: a 2009 that had been garaged all it's life with lower miles.

    If you were looking at it strictly from a battery life perspective in your climate, miles probably have a bigger impact on the life of the battery than years as Ohio is fairly cool, and heat reduces battery life similar to how charge-discharge cycles reduce the batteries' capacity (other's can disagree with me here, battery life is really hard to predict with so many factors!). Therefore I'd tend towards a late model 2nd gen (08 or 09). However if you were in Florida, I'd probably tend towards a 3rd gen with higher miles. Older Prii from hotter states will probably have batteries with less remaining life for the same mileage.

    Here's how I think of it: If you bought an '09 with 100K and its battery died at 175K, you'd get 75K out of it, and if you bought a '12 with 150K and its battery dies at 200K you'd get 50K out of it.

    The 3rd gen has other advantages, like better FE, more power, and IMHO the best styling of any of the Prius models. Also keep in mind the car has many other components that can fail.

    Ultimately it will come down to the deal. I bought my Prius because the seller was selling it $1000 under blue book for a quick sale for his father who got dementia and could no longer drive the car. If I'd found a 3rd gen instead at that time for as good of a deal I certainly would have bought it.
     
    #2 Kevin_Denver, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
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  3. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    Gen2 without even thinking about it.
     
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  4. ElectricCarFan

    ElectricCarFan Junior Member

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    Thank you for the great information. This is all very helpful. I actually forgot to mention that when my current lease is up (May 2017), I plan to move to Florida. I plan to spend the remainder of the summer here in Toledo Ohio and then in September I plan on moving to Central Florida (probably any of these: Orlando/Winter Haven/Melbourne/Palm Bay/etc). I will buy my Prius up here (in May 2017) right after I hand in my Leaf, and then pack my Prius up in September to move to Florida (with only whatever it can hold). I might have to make 2 trips, but at todays low gas prices I don't worry too much.
     
  5. ElectricCarFan

    ElectricCarFan Junior Member

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    Why would you say that (just curious)?

    I have actually always liked the Gen 2, and its actually the one I'd always planned on getting (long ago). I wouldn't mind getting one. At the prices around here where I live, its leaning towards the Gen 2 though. I see many of them around town. I see some Gen 3 also, but actually I see more Gen 2. They just go and go. Every single one I've seen has not had any rust or anything. They always look really clean.
     
  6. Dustin92

    Dustin92 Junior Member

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    150k miles is not "super high miles" on a 3rd gen Prius or any Prius for that matter! I paid $4k for my 2004 with 174k and it runs and drives like new. I joke that it's barely broken in! Prius' have been known to do 400k-500k miles, with 300k being easily achievable if you drive enough. I have a feeling I may be coming up on a Hybrid battery replacement, but if the rest of the car holds together (which I'm sure it will) I should be golden to at least 250-300k. I think age plays a more important role in battery life than mileage, and I'm driving a 12 year old car. Age plays a role in any vehicle's lifespan, especially in states that have snowy winters and salt on the roads- a neighbor is getting ready to put $3000 into her 2004 Mazda van because the frame is rotten/rusted. She has owned it since new, always kept clean and parked in the garage etc, and it's only got 120,000 miles. Still looks brand new on the outside. She was seriously debating whether to fix it or move on, but she loves it and they aren't made anymore, and she knows the history of maintenance and repairs.
     
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  7. ElectricCarFan

    ElectricCarFan Junior Member

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    I agree, those are good points. I don't doubt that you can get that kind of mileage out of a Prius. I hope I can get that as well.

    That's pretty much why my grandma has told me to get a Gen 3, due to the age. She wants me to have a Prius that's newer in age even if its 150K+. I've informed here that I could very well likely get 200K-300K out of a used Gen 3 before the HV battery does die on me. I certainly wouldn't mind a Gen 3, but I just wasn't sure. That's why I posted my situation up here. I'm personally okay with either generation, but I just want to make the smartest decision. I plan on moving to Florida later on that summer (September 2017). So that should make it better for my Prius' condition.

    I guess if there's a decent mileage Gen 3 for sale I will try for that, but if there's not then I'll look at a Gen 2. I could tolerate getting the Gen 3 (2010) I saw with 159K on it, no problem though. It looked nice. But, mostly I don't even see many Gen 3 for sale in my price range (only 3 at the moment in 100 mile radius).

    It sounds like you got a pretty good deal though, wow! Only 4K. I'm glad your getting that kind of longevity out of your Prius, that gives me hope that I maybe can get the same. I've always heard that Prius are long lived.
     
  8. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Is this a fantasy tread? There are no guarantees on a used car that you'll one day purchase a year from now. Best to face reality when the time comes and leave some room for things that don't go as planned on a used car. It may not be as reliable as you're envisioning
     
  9. srellim234

    srellim234 Senior Member

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    ElectricCarFan - I'm not too sure how much this helps but here's a thread from my same dilemma just two months ago.

    Cutoff mileage for buying a used Gen 3 | PriusChat

    The difference was that we needed a replacement right away. We settled on the 2008 (generation 2) but the car came with good service records and was from a dealer we've purchased from before. We trust him like a family friend.

    By the time you're ready, though, these cars you're looking at will have another model year under their belts and you may well see generation 3s with reasonable mileage going for the same prices you're seeing the generation 2s at now. It's good to be looking but be patient and don't make up your mind about your purchase too soon.
     
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  10. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    2 years ago, I went for a younger gen 3. Why? For starters, just forget this is a hybrid and look at it just like any regular car:

    As a car gets older rubber fatigues and dries up, metals rust, and paint ages. Road salt will have done their work on fuel and brake lines towards the day they will eventually leak. Rocker panels and hatches start to rust, catalytic converter develops holes, cv boots tear, and steering components loosen at points, grease dries up on joints, and even your parking brake cables starts to seize.

    I know these because I used to buy 10yo beaters and kept them for a minimum of 5 years until they fell apart. Some I bought at almost 300,000km and drove until their odometers showed almost a half million kilometers (before it stopped working).

    It isn't the miles that kills a car, it's usually the gazillion aging little things that does. I've had cars still running that I drove to the metal scrappers simply because their emission components have failed and no longer worth fixing. An old car isn't pretty to live with.

    If the Prius battery is your concern, know that a gen 3 battery can be bought in Ontario for $1000 and installed for another $100 Canadian dollars (total around $8,500 US dollars). You're near enough the border to drive to us when the time comes.

    Also unless it's an ex taxi, a high mileage Prius means it most likely was driven on the highway. That's really good for your batteries as it's barely used and usually kept fully charged.
     
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  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    2012 Plug-In Prius say 100k miles may be getting into dare I say $10-12k range by 2017, if you like Plug_ins.
     
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  12. ElectricCarFan

    ElectricCarFan Junior Member

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    I actually love Plug-in vehicles, and all-electric vehicles too. Having had my Leaf these past 2 years I've learned there needs to be a balance between the two. I believe EVs and PHEVs are the future and eventually there will (or could) be no other kind of vehicle on the road. For me, I eventually want to reach a point where I have a vehicle that can drive 90% on electricity (the City) and 10% on the gas generator. It would be the best of both worlds.

    I'm personally not going to bother with a Plug-in Prius though (unless I were to miraculously find one for 6K), since I will only have $6,000 by the time my Nissan Leaf lease is up. The very next day after handing it in, I'll be Prius shopping. I aim to just find a Prius, hand them the money (after doing the research/finding a decent Prius/Toyota Inspection/etc), and owning it free and clear. I won't be taking out any financing or anything. Whatever my $6,000-6,500 gets me is what I'll have.

    The bottom line for me is that if I had $10-12K in the bank set aside for a used car, I would hands down straight away buy a Chevy Volt. The cheapest Volt I can find on the used car market (100 radius around my area) is $9,990. And that's just 1 single Volt, the next one up is 11K. I'm actually not keen on going back to gas with no Plug-in ability.

    The Volt (Gen 1) can go 38 EPA miles before its gas engine even kicks on; to generate electricity. The Gen 2 Volt which just came out can do 53 EPA miles on battery. I would love that by far, but my budget is what dictates what I can get. The Plug-in Prius would be a waste of money since it only goes 11 EPA miles (limited to 62MPH in EV mode) and then its tapped out.

    I do appreciate the input though. :).
     
  13. ElectricCarFan

    ElectricCarFan Junior Member

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  14. jjdemu

    jjdemu Junior Member

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    When time is ready to look for one and if you looking at a gen 2, invest in a Toyota mini vci cable and a laptop that runs Techstream. Look at the thread that S Keith has posted about testing the HV battery. The year and mileage of the car doesn't matter as the battery can fail anytime but this could give you some insight if there is any minor or major problems with the data you collect from Techstream.
    I would also register for an account at Toyota Owners website. There you can put the year of car and Vin number to access the service records done by Toyota, this can be done even if you don't own the car.
    As always something may happen as soon as you take ownership of any vehicle, I been there and done that a few times.

    With car above it says "Dealer Serviced since NEW" there is a gap between 7/25/11 (44,588 miles)- 1/29/14 (73,550 miles) that it was not service by a dealer. Not really a deal breaker just a note.
     
    #14 jjdemu, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
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  15. srellim234

    srellim234 Senior Member

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    The Toyota Owners website is apparently not completely accurate. We just picked up our 2008 Prius in April. The Owners website only shows the services performed at Toyota of Orange starting at 55,000 miles. Yesterday when Crown Toyota pulled the car up on their screen (the first time I've had the car in since our purchase) it showed them every service had been faithfully done starting at 5,000 miles, every one of those services done by Toyota of Orange. It showed the details of all those earlier services, too.
     
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  16. jjdemu

    jjdemu Junior Member

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    That is good to know. May be worth a try to ask the service department and ask if they could pull up the service records. Of course it would be a ymmv thing but may give peace of mind if they will do it.
     
    #16 jjdemu, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
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  17. ElectricCarFan

    ElectricCarFan Junior Member

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    I ended up buying a used 2010 3rd Gen Toyota Prius. It's got 182,000 miles on it and I paid $6,200, and after dealer fees and state taxes it came out to $6,800. It's a one-owner Prius and was recently detailed. I looks very nice for the age and miles it's got.

    Now that I own it, I'm concerned about maintenance items. The carfax and Toyota owners website show no records of a Hybrid Transaxle fuid change that some here on PriusChat have said needs done. Also, it looks like pretty much every other maintenance item is not recorded as having been done either. Its been to the dealer over the years for a few recalls but I'm not seeing records for things. They could've gotten them done elsewhere. I don't know. It drove and looks very nice.

    Should I get the Hybrid Transmission (Transaxle) fluid changed or should I leave it alone? One local dealership I called told me that it never needs servicing and they said Toyota told them this on their internal dealership computer database. While other dealers I called where able to quote me a price of $129.99 and $189.99.

    What do you guys think? Also, should I get a hybrid system scan at the dealership, they charge $50, but will scan the car's computer for trouble codes and error messages. I know little of this prius's service history. It is in nice condition though, the previous owner did 26K miles a year on it according to CarFax. I assume that it's all mostly highway miles.

    Where should I go from here? I'm in my mid-late 20s and don't have a while lot of money to throw around. The car ran very nicely from where I bought it (120 miles away in Indiana, I live in NW Ohio).
     
    #17 ElectricCarFan, Aug 31, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
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  18. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If you don't have a lot of money to throw around, then use this opportunity to learn about the car and do the maintenance items yourself. The Prius is a very simple car to work on and there are plenty of tutorials and videos online.

    Since the car is running fine, you just need to familiarize yourself into doing the maintenance items. DIY will be fairly cheap and it'll be a learning experience.

    1. Get a minivci cable from Amazon for $25. That will run off a laptop computer and will diagnose any problems with your Prius.

    After you get that, then you can scan the car yourself and fix what's needed. You can schedule the maintenance things into your daily schedule, there's no rush since this car is currently running properly and without issue.
     
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  19. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    definitely do the tranny fluid.

    if you're comfortable crawling under the car and have most of the tools (floor ramps, floor jacks and chairs, drain pans, hand pump to pump the fluid up from under, etc) then just DYI the tranny fluid. It isn't that difficult, and there are lots of good vids showing how to do it.

    If not and you need to buy the equipment and is a one time deal for you, the $129 would be cheaper. Buying the equipment and tools only makes sense if you plan to future maintenance yourself.
     
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  20. ElectricCarFan

    ElectricCarFan Junior Member

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    I think I'm probably more comfortable letting Toyota service the transmission fluid change. But, I'm afraid that if I get this done the transmission will fail on me! I've been told on here that the fluid needs to be changed every 60K miles but I've also been told by people that if I mess with an old cars transmission, the transmission could die on me and the car will require a new one for $5,000! So I don't know what to do. I don't have really have money to just pay Toyota to service the car for everything (or much at that), but at the same time I don't want to hurt anything either. My dad has room where I could do fluid changes in his driveway with his ramps, but we don't have the hand-pump thing (I still don't know what its for though), and I'm kind of afraid if he does it for me he'll break something since hes a gas car mechanic and doesn't really do Hybrids.

    I've owned a 94' Dodge Shadow, and 95 Old's Eighty Eight and I never messed with the transmission (fluid, filter, or anything), so this is all new to me. I'm kind of scared of ruining my Prius!