Toyota is listening

Yeah, this is endless, as noted earlier. I just needed to get that out of my system. Enjoy your H2-powered future. I will too, if it ever happens.

 

yes, but that makes it sound too simple. can i make it with my solar panels at home and water?

 

Yes, you could.

 

great! can you tell me how or point me to directions? will it be more expensive than a big evse?

 

[crickets chirp]

 

So sorry for being out flying instead of sitting at my computer. Didn't mean to ruin your day.

I've seen and used electrolyzers from 1kW to 300kW. No reason you couldn't have something in the lower part of that size range in your house, though I still contend the best solution is to have a plug-in hybrid where you recharge at home (L1/120V is sufficient) and refuel on the road when on longer trips. It's the same model as Tesla uses except you replace the 90kWh battery with a 10-15kWh battery and a ~15kW fuel cell plus ~3-5kg H2 storage (combined cost around 1/3rd the cost of a Tesla battery), and you replace the Superchargers with H2 fueling stations. One H2 fueling station could replace 8 superchargers (at around the same installed cost), and each car would only need to spend 3-5 minutes doing a full refuel instead of the current 45 minutes or so. Way more practical for road trips, uses less land, puts less load on the distribution grid and needs less electrical infrastructure (~150kW instead of ~1.5MW).

 

How far would 5kg of H2 get me?

 

Depends on the implementation of course, but in round numbers 1kg of H2 = 15-20kWh of electricity. So, 250-400 miles, depending on the car, the speed, the implementation, etc.

 

thanks! so it doesn't sound practical today. what is your best guess time estimate, to get to where we are today with ev's, both cost wise and engineering?

 

Heard that. ... wow, you (OP) were contacted?

I bought TWO brand new Prius, 2nd and 3rd gen. NOT ONCE (ok, see bottom) was I ever contacted about how I like the DESIGN of the car.

I was surveyed about how I liked the sales process. Whoopee. Something that lasts a day or so, the sales process.

I bought one brand new 2011 Honda Accord COUPE (Bisco) and was surveyed online and with an extensive printed form concerning the design of the car, what I liked, didn't like etcetera.... I was surveyed voluntarily THREE times about the car design after the purchase. Honda really wanted to know how I liked THE CAR.

Toyota didn't seem to want to know. But they did send a lamo online survery last year that crashed while doing it, I didn't receive the code to continue and it ended up wasting an hour of my time. Oh what a feeling.

 

Lemme see, the tow truck has jump cables, they apply them to the electrical system to disengage the electric parking brake (?)

** I'd think any decent mfr. would have thought that out.

 

join the club. last 8 cars were toyota. not even a 'have an apple or kiss my foot'.

 

It is practical today, but no one is pushing it the way Elon is pushing BEVs. BEVs aren't practical today as 100% use cars the way a Prius is and H2 hybrids would be. The Mirai certainly isn't practical.

If the Tesla's were H2/plug in hybrids and were being pushed as hard as the current ones are, they'd be much more practical than the current ones.

 

agreed, but i meant the home brewing station. i didn't need elon or toyota to plug my car in.

 

Sure, no reason at all - where do I get one and what would it cost? Price would have to include H2 storage and high-pressure fueling system, wouldn't it? (I'm assuming cryo would be impractical for home use, but you're the expert - and still hearing crickets).

Rounding maybe just a bit too much there. A Mirai only manages 67 MPGe (as opposed to >100 MPGe for, e.g., a LEAF) and the EPA calculates MPGe based on 33.7kWH/gal, meaning the Mirai takes 33.7kWh to travel 67 miles. Even going with the high end of your usable kWh/kg estimate for H2, that comes out to something like 200 miles for 5kg. 250-400 seems to be stretching.

 

And you still would. You'd plug you plug-in hybrid in at home at 120V. The H2 is a range extender the same way superchargers are a range extender, but it's way, way faster (3-5 minutes instead of 45 minutes). It probably provides more range too (300+ miles instead of 200-250) and it wouldn't change in cold temperatures.

 

Okay, so we're not talking about FCEVs at all, but PHFCEVs, a vehicle category that doesn't exist. There is a whole new category of economic problems opened up by that idea, but I'm not getting into that until I work up the will to spin up a thread outside this one - we are totally abusing this forum.

Of course, this all neatly dodges bisco's original question. It wasn't substantively different from my own - how would/could I keep using a FCEV if H2FC hits the acceptance/support wall and leaves the scene?

This is a relevant and quite fair question for purposes of comparison, because if I buy a Tesla today, my car will remain quite useful if all public charging disappears, perfectly serviceable for everything but infrequent road trips (they do rent cars, you know), because the charging system in my garage, tapped into the universally available electrical grid or personal power generation systems, will keep working indefinitely. What's the comparable strategy for keeping my "orphan" FCEV on the road? I don't think there is one, and your evasion of the issue is only reinforcing my suspicions.

 

okay, so we have established that it's practical. now, what is the next hurdle, why can't i buy a home solar to hydrogen to fcev charger?

 

Mirai gets about 65 MPG per Kg (whereas 1 Kg = 1 equivalent gallon) so that's what you could get in theory in the best case scenario, if I am following this thread correctly (not sure yet). Mirai tanks holds about 5 KG so you get 325 miles range.

>>BTW if Toyota is listening, I want the TPMS data to read out on the dash (Tire Pressure/Temps)

 

There is the example of the H2 house in New Jersey, I think he uses solar to H2 then FCV for house electric. Looks like he's charging a PiP in the video! But he is storing H2 in big cylinders so that's the drawback. The alternative would be to have large battery bank and store the electric instead of storing H2. Cheaper to use grid power, but if off grid, you can choose storing H2 or storing elec.

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