Consumer Reports Pegs Prime EV Range at 28 Miles

I was in the market for a bench seat in my truck for 1 reason alone.

I'd be happy with front and rear benches.

 

hey, bill clinton wouldn't drive anything but a van or pickup or something. we can all learn from the zen master.

 

See, I knew you're going to bring up the loss of the 6th passenger seating. I was waiting for it.
People are OK with losing the front center seat because it's not safe due to no airbag coverage, no 3 point seat belt and interferes with driver operation such as manual shifting or "accidentally" step on the gas pedal.
Loading 3 people in the front means less comfort for all 3 passengers. All 3 passengers experience fatigue on long drives, especially the driver. People would just take a more comfortable vehicle like a minivan or SUV or take 2 cars.
As the market is saturated with foreign cars that are only available with 5 seats, people just accept it due to the above mention reasons. They get reliability in exchange of losing the 6th seat.

As income rises and cars becoming more affordable, large groups of people would just take their cars instead of cramming into a single car. 80's saw the introduction of Minivans. 90's Saw the rise of SUVs and the fall of Station Wagons. Families are replacing their single 6 passenger sedans and station wagons with minivan or SUV for the roominess and comfort.

Gen 1 and gen 2 Toyota Avalon had 6 passenger seating option at a cost. People are not that interested in paying extra for the 6 seat option due to cost and the lack of need. 6 seat option was dropped in gen 3.

In all honesty, people just don't load up their cars with 6 people. They do with 5 people because the 4 other passengers don't interfere with driver's safety and comfort.

Center seats just don't get used even when couples traveling together. People would rather use that space as storage.

 

May come sooner than you think with all the interest in Elio, Toyota's own i-ROAD, Renault Twizy, Colibri, etc.. Yeah I know the Elio is suppose to seat 2 but 99% of the time they'll probably drive with one. I'm seeing a lot of SmartforTwo running around during the summer as well.

The bench seats in my El Camino and Truck didn't help me at all. Wife was not interested in romance in a vehicle. )


Unsupervised!

 

Yet, you weren't prepared. A generic response about how the market has changed over the decades doesn't provide us with a reason why Prius Prime specifically should offer more.

Toyota's choice to target a different demographic is what some don't like. When the goal is growth, why shouldn't they offer a greater variety?

 

99% of the time, i drive with one. but i still need room for odds and ends. why don't we all just get mopeds?

 

There is no excuse for a 1-seater. My 370 lb motorcycle seats 2. Likewise, there is no excuse for a 4-seater Prius. If you want the cup holders, then the center arm rest can drop out of the seat back and provide them. You can build plenty of comfort into 2 of the rear seats while still allowing the middle seat to be utilized when needed.

...and I'll say it again, but if someone is in the rear of my car, they are getting a free ride. I'm uninterested in how luxurious the rear of my vehicle is for those getting a free ride.

 

That's why you are not the intended market. Know the audience. Some people do want that. Some also see the value in a large screen, heads-up display, LED lights, and a double-wave window. All are luxuries. For that matter, so are the larger battery & plug.

 

Sure I am; I own the gen 1 PiP.

 

Prius Prime is different than Prius PHV in a variety of ways, including who it will draw interest from.

Most people don't remember the goals prior to rollout, back in 2010 when config had not be finalized.

Things have changed since then. The market has shifted and Toyota is pursuing a new target.

Adaption is a key to success.

 

I am a member of the new audience and I'll bet I'm not alone.

 

Wow, I guess you only read the first sentence. Generic response? Over 10 reasons why the 6th seat didn't matter. Besides, full size cars losing its 6th seat has nothing to do with the Prime losing its 5th seat. 6 seat cars has been tried and the market has no need for it anymore. The only why 6 seat in 2 row seating still exist is because auto makers can't find a practical way to put in 3 row seating in a pickup truck.
4 seat vs 5 seat has been discussed since 2011. 4 seat PHEV has been tried. The only thing that kept the sale coming is its range. If the Volt and PiP have the same range, which one do you think people would buy? GM ended up putting a 5th seat just to satisfy the market regardless of how useless it may be. Toyota's gonna have to do the same for the Prime. When Toyota realize it made a horrible mistake and put the 5th seat in the Pime, are you still going to continue to advocate for the 4 seat Prime and protest against having a 5th seat? Why didn't you protest against the PiP for having the 5th seat when it was released?

 

Speaking of adaptation, that was a grudge I always held against gen-1 Volt. There was no willingness to meet in the middle. That attitude of sacrificing all for the sake of EV didn't prove a draw. Loyal GM customers simply weren't interested. Oddly, gen-2 Volt retained many of the same hold backs. So, there's naturally a bit of a "compared to what?" problem with many of the recent discussions.

That's why we need to ask the "Who?" question. Having learned from Volt, it's absolute essential to understand audience. GM targeted enthusiasts... and did a great job appealing to them. Unfortunately, that wasn't the goal. Mainstream sales were never achieved and they still remain a struggle.

Once the clearance inventory is sold in a few months, we'll be looking at a new market. Bolt will become available. Oddly, that 200-mile EV doesn't seem to be targeted at the mainstream either. To provide a large seating area, both cargo-capacity & aerodynamics were sacrificed. Who will be interested in a vehicle like that? In other words, what do the current owners of Malibu & Cruze really want from their vehicle?

Same question for that of Toyota cars. Will Prius Prime appeal to Camry & Corolla owners looking for a replacement? For those who continue to complain here, their perspective is that Prius Prime is targeted at Prius owners. I disagree. I see greater appeal and potential. I see Scion owners having become older now looking for a Toyota to purchase. I see those who grew up with Celica looking for something modern with that draw from the past. I see those who like the perks of Avalon but don't want a car that large.

Notice how Toyota is trying something new? Why insist that they retain a design aspect so few actually seek? Is it so bad to want a choice that doesn't resemble all the others? They are making an effort to adapt to the changing market.

The market was very, very different back in 2011. The goal was quite different too. Think about all that was learned since then. Think about how much of that isn't the focus anymore.

Again, adaptation...

 

There is something really basic going on in this conversation. One could get the idea from it that there is just one auto market and it has changed. If that was true., all cars would be the same. There are many markets and all are changing. We who value high gasoline mileage and reliability have been loyal Prius owners and deserve to be served as a clear market segment. It is my impression that the Prime is doing that even better. We are not monolithic as this disagreement shows. Will Toyota sell cars better with the changes proposed? They re making their bets and it is their money. It is not a question of right and wrong. We either like it and buy or will not and move on.

What you do best, John, is to describe what Toyota has offered and how to make the best use of it. When you start saying what we should want or what "the market " wants, you are getting into a new world. Are you trying to tell us what Toyota is thinking?

 

thats why prius sales keep declining. they are seeking a new audience, failing to get one, and losing the past audience. meanwhile, other manufacturers continue to eat their lunch.
i have seen this happen with legacy products time and time again. you invent something great, others improve on it, and your left holding the bag.
apple is having the same struggles, but: they don't design their new products to appeal to a different audience only, they try to appeal to their existing customers as well.

 

I think it has more to do with cheap gas. Funny but nobody can meet their #1 attribute, MPG. Alas nobody is interested in that.

There are other attributes that they are trying out on the Prime. Not just the bigger battery - heck everybody has one. One example is the gas injected heat pump and the other is default installation of Toyota's Safety Sense.

And yet they still struggle. They did better when they came up with a whole new market. Only one connector in their breakout iMac which everybody denounced. And the creation of the iPhone, which everybody said was gonna fail because it didn't have a keyboard.


Unsupervised!

 

agree with the buying habits part. very few people will want a four seater, just as very few people want a two seater. it's just a small proportion of car buyers. i know, i know, they're only looking for 30k a year.