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New owner of '05 with only 200 miles

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by 2005, Sep 14, 2016.

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  1. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    It's indicative of a bad battery that the bar display swing wildly from low to full charge and back. The better the battery the longer both the charge and discharge times will be for a given rate of charge in amps. A higher capacity battery will hold more charge, and take longer to discharge it. There are other possibilities within the battery that may cause the MFD readings to show incorrectly, but these would normally issue a fault code.
    If a sense wire is broken or the is corrosion in the plug at the HV battery ECU the ecu will give faulty readings. Each wire reports back the voltage for 2 modules "a block pair" around 16 volts. A broken or badly corroded wire usually where it joins it's module can report anything it likes between zero, and 16 volts. These voltages are added to give the total battery voltage. this cold be up to16 volts lower than the actual voltage from the battery.
    Many here will know a sense wire being broken is not unusual. A simple volt meter across the HV battery terminal with the car in ready mode to add some load, but engine not running will give a good indication of it,s level of charge. There are enough graphs on PC to give a good indication of level of charge against voltage, and the number of bars that should be showing for that voltage.

    John
     
    #41 Britprius, Sep 15, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  2. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    When mine is warmed up, I could do that if I wanted to, but choose not to as I don't want to put that stress from cycling on the battery.

    Maybe it is driving styles?

    Also, it is a very common thing for noobs to want to force EV, even though it is bad for the battery long term.

    The OP also said that if it wasn't for the display staying at 1 bar, he wouldn't think there was anything wrong with the car.
     
    #42 dolj, Sep 15, 2016
  3. 2005

    2005 New Member

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    I'm sorry but I don't have a camera phone or a digital camera, never owned one, never needed one. I have the same cell phone I've got one of those cell phones from AARP.

    I never heard of oil going bad in the container, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

    The oil that was in the car was used to start it the first time, once it warmed up I changed the oil and filter.

    The stored tires are as new, they were put in heavy vinyl storage bags and vacuum sealed. By the look of the bags, they're intended for just that purpose. The vinyl is heavy, about double that of a good clear shower curtain with a vacuum port and zip lock type closure.

    I guess I should elaborate on the extent of how many vehicles he had stored, there are 12 buildings, all are basically 120x60' insulated steel buildings, sort of like an airplane hangar with only a few small doors. The cars are stored in rows. The one building is an extension of an older, original building on the property, the Prius was in that old part of the building. All the buildings are heated and air conditioned. Cost of storage was not a concern. The cars range from a couple from the mid 20's all the way up to 2005. Each building has a loft of second floor storage area accessed via a set of steel steps and a catwalk.
    I wouldn't say he was so much a hoarder as an odd collector in a way. He didn't save junk, most everything is in pristine shape and stored to keep it that way. The property spans over 600 acres including two houses and dozens of buildings.
    Everything was put in this location in the mid 70's and moved from a larger warehouse several hundred miles away.

    The Prius is the only hybrid and I've got zero experience with these, I never even drove one before driving this one.

    As far as warning lights, there's an occasional car shaped light with an exclamation point that shows up on the display but it goes right back out.
    The battery bar that's showing looks more blue to me, it never changes, the bottom bar is lit and nothing else.
    I drove the car at a low speed around the block here several times to try and see if the battery was indeed that low, but after several 1.1 mile trips around the neighbor hood here keeping the speed low enough not to engage the gas engine, the battery indicator doesn't change and the car acts normal. When I step down on the gas and pull onto the main road, the engine runs and the arrows start pointing to the battery bars vs. away from them.

    I haven't disconnected the 12v battery since it was installed the other day, but I would have figured that installing the new battery would have reset everything?

    If the HV battery is used to start the gas engine, then it was never dead, the only battery that was changed was the 12v battery. At that time I was under the impression that it was the one that started the car but later realized it was only needed to supply power to the electronics that controlled the rest of the car. Once that battery was changed, the car turned on, drove, and I was able to hear the engine run and drive it to the gas station about a half mile down the road for a full tank of fresh fuel.
    I then returned and changed the oil and filter. The oil that came out looked as clean as the oil I put back in.
    The 12v battery was actually sitting on a maintenance charger but it didn't survive, the charger must have failed over the years and let the battery go completely dead. Every one of the vehicles in storage there had their batteries removed and stored. A few were drained and stored dry, those with sealed batteries were stored on automatic maintenance chargers.

    None of the cars are for sale or are to be sold, it was his stipulation that they either be enjoyed or maintained as they are now by certain named parties, myself being one of them.

    What I'm really just trying to figure out is if the HV battery is beyond use or if there's some strange issue with the display after being completely dead for so long. The dealer and two local shops that seemed to know these all said that there's no way the HV battery could be still good. One dealer I spoke to said that as a last resort, to remove the HV battery and to freeze it at sub zero temps for a few days and then recharge it, they said one of their customers had revived theirs that way???
    They would not however put that in writing. They simply quoted me for a complete HV battery replacement.
    So far and after 5 dealers, I've been quoted between $3200 and $5400 to replace the HV battery.
    If it comes to that I'll do it myself.
    Is there an easy way to access the HV battery to check open voltage?

    I do agree with the earlier post that due to the low miles on this car it would be well worth just buying a new HV battery but I don't want to do that if its not needed.
     
    #43 2005, Sep 16, 2016
  4. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You claim to be a diesel mechanic, but you don't seem to be able to follow the logic of what has been suggested to you.
    That would be correct, but you have driven some hundreds of miles now and let's just assume for the moment the battery is good, but the display is not giving the true data, then disconnecting the 12 V may reset the battery calibration. However you mention the car with exclamation mark appearing in the display. This is the Hybrid system warning, so clearly the car is not happy about something. You need to get hold of a hybrid capable code reader, or pay the Toyota dealer to do it and see if there are any codes.

    Further, there could be corrosion or broken sense wires within the battery that might just need cleaning or fixing up.

    The fact you can drive the car like normal, seems to indicate the battery is not totally knackered.

    But if you are not willing to answer our questions accurately, there is not much that we can say and you will keep getting the WAGs you're getting.
    We are all trying to work that out too, you truly have a unique case here and it's really intriguing. While the consensus might agree with the dealer, your car is not really exhibiting the usual symptoms of a dead HV battery.
    Never heard of this, but @Britprius or @strawbrad can possibly say whether this is feasible or just a urban myth.
    I don't know what the competitive situation is in NJ, but battery retails from online US$2075-22xx + taxes over the counter, they don't usually deliver. YMMV. It will take you 4-6 hours (or more) the first time. People who do the Dorman/Greentec thing have got it down to 1.5-2 hours, but there is more to doing OEM swap.

    Yes, you can do it yourself, but you need to take proper precautions because you will be dealing with HV DC current which will kill you.

    There is a video on the net that was made by one of the battery "rebuilder" outfits, that shows how to replace the HV batt with one of theirs (Don't use a rebuilt btw). I'll see if I can find the link, but a search here should turn it up as it has been posted here several times.

    In the early stages, you will get to the stage where you can measure the open voltage.

    Of course, with techstream, you can do it with out dismantling anything.

    Post back if you have any further questions.
     
    #44 dolj, Sep 16, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  5. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    #45 dolj, Sep 16, 2016
    orenji likes this.
  6. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Then what are you going to do with it? I personally wouldn't spend my own money for a new HV battery just to maintain someone else's museum piece and drive it around the block every now and then.
     
    #46 fotomoto, Sep 16, 2016
  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Keep in mind the pip lines on the battery graphic do not necessarily reflect the same amount of charging for each line. I suppose if you are really low it might take more time to get the charge up.
     
    #47 wjtracy, Sep 16, 2016
  8. kinglew

    kinglew Member

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    post vin number. Since you dont no andody with a smart phone to post pic for you how rare smart phones just as prius 2005 with 200 miles
    Post vin number to see what tell the from is true
     
    #48 kinglew, Sep 16, 2016
  9. 2005

    2005 New Member

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    The car is mine now, it and three other vehicles were left to me in a will, I also have the option of buying any others that other members of the family don't take. If I didn't take the Prius, other family members had the option of buying it for an agreed value of $1,200.

    The warning light with the exclamation point came on twice that I've seen so far, the first time was while driving it home, it appeared only for a few seconds while going up a rather long hill, then again after making several laps around the neighborhood here at low speed. It came on after I let the car sit in the driveway still on with the brake depressed.

    I disconnected the 12v battery this morning, after a 35 mile drive its still showing one bar on the screen.

    The HV battery was disconnected from the vehicle via a latch/lever type connector in the rear, we knew about that because the owner had left a note in the car saying what was done to disconnect the power and where all the spare parts were stored. Every car had similar notes placed in large envelopes left in each vehicle. I think he actually figured he'd eventually be using the cars again at some point, but he never recovered and passed away 12 years later.

    Can the battery voltage be probed at that connector with a volt meter?
    I am fully aware of the voltage in these and feel I'm more than capable of dealing with it.

    I watched the video on Youtube about replacing one of these batteries, it don't look that bad if you take your time.
    According to the guy at the dealer the battery assembly in its case weighs right around a 100lbs, that don't sound so bad to me to handle. By the video, it appears to be completely behind the seats so I can picture just laying a sheet of plywood down and sliding it to the rear of the car fairly easily too.

    I take it from what I've read that not all Toyota dealers work on Prius'?
     
    #49 2005, Sep 16, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  10. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    If you're a DIY sort, it is MUCH easier to get these readings along with much more information from the white OBD port underneath the left dash just to the right of the steering wheel. Using an OBD cable hooked to an older winPC laptop that has Toyota's Techstream software loaded on it will reveal tons of information about the car.

    Or you can take it to any Toyota dealer or hybrid specialist shop and let them do it (for a diagnostic fee of course). The greater NJ area should have tons of choices.
     
    #50 fotomoto, Sep 16, 2016
  11. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    "The HV battery was disconnected from the vehicle via a latch/lever type connector in the rear, we knew about that because the owner had left a note in the car saying what was done to disconnect the power and where all the spare parts were stored. Every car had similar notes placed in large envelopes left in each vehicle. I think he actually figured he'd eventually be using the cars again at some point, but he never recovered and passed away 12 years later."

    It sounds like to me that the orange safety plug is not completely installed correctly. What I would like for you to do (for my own peace of mind) is have you check the orange service plug to ensure it is properly inserted. This will seem elementary but please review this document in detail (page 21-118 is what applies). Pls pay specific attention to step 9. (c) on page 21-118. Many people (including qualified technicians) tend to forget this step. Pls verify the plug is installed correctly IAW this doc.
     

    Attached Files:

    #51 usnavystgc, Sep 16, 2016
  12. 2005

    2005 New Member

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    Where would I get Techstream software?
    I don't own a laptop but I'm sure I could find something cheap at a fleamarket or yardsale.

    It may just be easier to probe a connection somewhere and get a voltage reading.
    Would the voltage at the red slide connector be full battery voltage?
     
    #52 2005, Sep 16, 2016
  13. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    You cannot get a voltage reading at the safety plug. This basically splits the battery in near half when removed., and without the car in ready mode the other ends of the battery are disconnected, and cannot be connected until the safety plug is correctly in position.

    John
     
    #53 Britprius, Sep 16, 2016
  14. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Please don't go poking around. It's 300+ voltage.

    Here's what I used: Amazon.com: Fotga Newest V8.00.034 MINI VCI for TOYOTA TIS Techstream Diagnostic Cable & Software Model: ZB031 Car/Vehicle Accessories/Parts: Cell Phones & Accessories plug into OBD port and USB port on laptop.
     
    #54 fotomoto, Sep 16, 2016
  15. 2005

    2005 New Member

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    That's the plug that was disconnected when I found the car, along with the 12v battery being removed from the car.
    Can I check voltage somehow at that plug without having to take more of the car apart?
     
    #55 2005, Sep 16, 2016
  16. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    #56 Britprius, Sep 16, 2016
    fotomoto likes this.
  17. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    No
     
    #57 Britprius, Sep 16, 2016
  18. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    DOH! Brainfart. I should have remember that since I use a gridcharger every month that only goes to 235v.
     
    #58 fotomoto, Sep 16, 2016
  19. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    One other thing to note with the Prius system the batteries both the 12volt and the HV battery cannot look after themselves when the car is in neutral.
    The HV battery cannot charge in neutral no matter how long you leave it. When it becomes discharged it can no longer charge the 12 volt battery.
    If the engine is running when you change to neutral it will stay running, but if it is not running the engine cannot start. The battery will continue to discharge.

    John
     
    #59 Britprius, Sep 16, 2016
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  20. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    I know what you mean, but I have a Lexus GS450H and that only goes a little over 300 Volts.
     
    #60 Britprius, Sep 16, 2016
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