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New owner of '05 with only 200 miles

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by 2005, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    Are you able to verify step (c) on page 21-118? I'm really betting that is your problem (that the plug is not all the way seated). $5 says that's it.

    This is my theory on what's happening. The plug is almost seated and the main voltage points are conducting but the indicator is not receiving the correct signal all the time, causing your intermittent DTC's. Reseat that orange plug and you'll be in business.
     
    #61 usnavystgc, Sep 16, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  2. 2005

    2005 New Member

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    I just got done checking all the connections around the battery, the disconnect was seated and latched with the handle pushed down, I removed it and reinstalled it several times to be sure its fully seated. I went so far as to uncover the battery as in the vid, I removed the service plate to get at the main terminals and I have 214.42 volts at the battery. The 12v battery reads 12.47 volts sitting here disconnected.

    What is the spec voltage for the HV battery while I'm here?
    I did get almost half a turn on the one lug of the main battery cable from the service disconnect connector, it wasn't 'loose' but it wasn't tight if you know what I mean. That one lug is slightly discolored but not damaged or corroded. (and yes, I wore linesman gloves).
    In fact, several of the bolts that hold the battery down to the floor were loose, a few were almost completely removed or never tightened and I found about 7 or 8 extras laying about down below the seat area. To my knowledge its never been apart before unless it had issues when new under warranty and the dealer had the thing out but a history search didn't turn up any past repairs both at the dealer or at Carfax.

    With everything hooked up, with the car running, there is still only one blue bar showing at the bottom of the gauge.
    Can I put a volt meter on the rear battery terminals that I can read while under load or will that mess something up?
    What is the perfect standing voltage in one of these batteries in a perfect battery?
     
  3. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    The battery is composed of 28 modules that contain 6 cells wired in series to give a total of 168 cells at a nominal voltage of 1.2 V per cell. This gives the total nominal voltage of 201.6 V as earlier stated by Britprius. Fully charged the voltage is between 1.4 V per cell or a total voltage of 235 V.

    However, the HV battery ECU never allows the battery to be fully charged or fully discharged and maintains the battery to a state of charge (SOC) between 40% (1 purple bar) and 80% (8 green bars). Here's where I come a little unstuck, as I don't know the correlation between voltage and SOC. I will see if I can dig into Techstream and find that info. Taking a guess on the assumption that 1.2 V/cell = 0% SOC and 1.4 V/cell =100% SOC may be it is some thing like this:

    Prius battery SOC WAG.png


    Also bear in mind the status bars overlap as this diagram shows:

    Prius Complex SOC.jpg

    That is fairly close to the bottom end (<40% according to my musing above) of what the Prius likes. I can only suggest if you want to pursue seeing if you can revive it, I'd make a call to @ericbecky or @jeff652 (Hybrid Automotive) and see if they think it can be redeemed or would be worth trying the HA charger on. I wonder if it just needs to be charged to above 216 V???

    That's all I got for now.
     
    #63 dolj, Sep 16, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  4. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Who knows Toyota may want to buy it back and place it in their Toyota museum! :)
     
  5. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    May we ask what other cars you inherited?
     
  6. 2005

    2005 New Member

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    I made up a set of long leads with clips for my Fluke meter so I can monitor voltage at the HV battery with the meter on the front seat. I took the car for another slow EV only drive around the block and then some and the volts don't drop much at all, but the engine took over this time after the third mile of slow driving. With the engine running, I upped the pace and ran the car around town and for a 10 mile run down some long back roads where I knew I could give it some coasting time downhill, when the arrow reverses, the volts climb drastically and settle at around 240 while the engine is running and the car is coasting with my foot off the gas. The HV battery volts after sitting for about 20 minutes is now at 220.16v. It seems to be staying there after sitting a while. When I drove the car this time I left the a/c off but had the lights on for most of the drive.

    I mentioned that I'd like to talk to someone from Toyota about this to the local dealer and they said I'd need to take it up with the selling dealer, who is over 100 miles away.

    What goes wrong with a NiMh battery when it sits? Apparently the battery didn't go completely dead, as it was able to start and drive the car once I replaced the 12v battery. What gets me though is that even though the battery volts climb after a longer drive, I see the same single bar at the bottom of the indicator.
    Also, everyone keeps saying that bar should be purple, it looks white or light green to me? I'm a bit color challenged but not completely color blind but I can usually tell the difference between green and purple. The screen looks sort of tricolored to me, its not a full on color display. It reminds me of those old black and white movies that were colorized. The single bar I'm seeing is sort of blue/green and at the bottom of the scale.
     
  7. eman08

    eman08 Active Member

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    I've seen far newer Mini vci OBI plugs with Toyota Tech software version 10. They look almost like giant flash drives with the other end with that has a mini usb port that connects a USB cable to your computer and seen some Bluetooth ones too. The newer ToyotaTech software runs on the latest Windows like 7/8/10. Those older mini vci cables are dated.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  8. 2005

    2005 New Member

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    Both other vehicles are trucks, one is a 1400 mile 2002 Escalade EXT and a 80's F150 with 12300 miles. I'm trying to buy an 88 4Runner with 3000 miles on it from the estate as well. It and a 4x4 Subaru were left to someone who was already deceased. Its not yet been started and it seems as clean as the Prius. He decided who got what vehicles, our names were put on the titles long ago. He may well have known who he was going to leave them too when he bought them. The lot of vehicles is getting split up between about 18 people. We were called and notified by an attorney about the vehicles and what he planned to do about two months before he passed. He wanted to give away all the cars and personal items before he passed so there could be no way to contest the will and no bickering between relatives as to who got what. He had no kids of his own so he divided everything up among the rest of the family. The odd part is its not really like we inherited something of his because he never really drove or spent any time in these cars. They were mostly just spur of the moment purchases that he kept and preserved. He bought cars like they were going out of style, often for no rhyme or reason.
    I really didn't want the Prius but neither did anyone else. I have two good cars and a reliable truck already that I had no plans of replacing anytime soon but I guess I'll have to reconsider that thought now.
     
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  9. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Those are not Mini VCI. they are VxDiag.

    Yes it is more modern, but also more expensive–not prohibitively though and worth the extra IMO.

    VxDiag is faster and more reliable that the myriad MVCI that are out there. You get what you pay for.
     
  10. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Do not use the AC while trying to charge the HV battery. The AC runs directly off the HV battery "it is not driven as with most cars by the engine", but by an electric motor drawing around 3KW of energy that would otherwise be charging the battery.

    Checking on some Techstream results of my own car 15.28 volts per module pair is 55% charged to it is reasonable expect that your battery at 220.16 volts divided by 14 (the number of module pairs) gives a voltage of 15.72. This puts your battery charge level at around 60% exactly where the computer tries to maintain it. I really do not believe you have a HV battery problem. Cant you get someone else to look at the display and tell you what they see.

    Report sheet from my Prius.

    John nb.JPG
     
    #70 Britprius, Sep 17, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
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  11. IMkenNY

    IMkenNY Im just being nosy

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    Assuming your Prius is insured and plated I would drive it for a few weeks and put some charge / discharge cycles on the traction battery. It wouldn't surprise me to see it recover.
    Avoid using AC, hard accelerations, steep climbs and high speed driving if you can.
    I'm believe the Prius was willed to you because you were the only relative that owned and knew how to use a Fluke meter :)
     
  12. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I'd be interested in buying the car if you're not willing to keep it
     
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  13. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    I'm intrigued as to why you insist on driving slowly in EV mode when you're worry the battery might be bad. Just drive the car normally for now.
    As Britprius said, at 220 V (60%) it is at the spot where the HV battery ECU like to keep it. I agree with Britprius also that I don't there is a problem with you battery, but it sound like your MFD is not functioning.
    Agree with this also.
    Agree with all that except high speed driving. High speed driving, at least up to 75 mph, is very gentle on the HV battery. There is no harm in doing that.

    Let us know the outcome.
     
  14. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    It's a new car, so he should not be driving the car hard anyway, the engine has yet to be broken in.
     
  15. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    This is a very interesting story, Thank you for sharing. I love cars too and sounds like he had a true love for his cars! Hope you take good care of the Prius. You keeping the F150?
     
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  16. 2005

    2005 New Member

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    Most of the driving the car will see around here will be low speed around town.
    The A/C has been on most of the time so far with the exception of the last two nights when it got pretty cool outside.
    The car is black so the sun heats it up pretty fast.

    I put the interior back in the car, the battery volts are up to 222.03 after a full day of driving.

    I put just shy of 200 miles on the car today, making the total on the car now 479 miles. The battery bar stayed the same all day but after parking the car in the driveway here and then going back outside to move it in the garage, the battery bar was showing three bars. Most of todays driving was at highway speeds, with the a/c off. The MPG indicator was hovering around 49.5 mpg for most of the day.
    How far should one of these go on a full tank of fuel on average? After 365 or so miles on this tank of gas the gauge is reading just under 1/2 tank according to the gauge, (three bars showing).
    The car drove fine all day, I kept the speed at or near 65mph tops. The car actually feels pretty good, its got more get up and go than I expected one of these to have. It does feel pretty light though in and around truck traffic on the highway.

    If the battery is OK, how many miles of normal highway driving should it take to bring the battery back up to normal?
    It really seems like they should have given owners a way to plug the car in overnight to either charge or maintain the battery.
     
  17. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    You should just buy a grid charger and charge that battery up. Once it's balanced, it'll probably be good as new
     
  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    That is ok, but you need to drive 30 mph, not 18 mph. Also try and use the ICE more than electric. It might sound counter-intuitive, but trust us when we tell you that.
    This is in the normal range. It has been mentioned more that once above. It is like you only skim read the posts without actually taking the time to fully understand everything.
    Between 400 miles to 600 miles. This model (peculiar to North America) has a flexible membrane within the fuel tank. The effects of this is that it is makes the distance per tank and the fuel gauge very irregular to the point the fuel gauge has been dubbed the "guess gauge" in the US. There are tons of posts here on the subject. Search is your friend, and I encourage you to research this topic.
    As stated above, your battery is in the normal range and appears to behaving normally, despite what you see on the Energy Monitor screen on the MFD (multifunctional display).
    They originally did on the Gen I, but then removed it from future generations and for the most part, they were right. I think you don't really need to worry about this.
    +1
     
  19. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Who's to say it is not balanced now?
     
  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Those Panasonic (then Sanyo) Eneloops are special low-self-discharge models. A 2005 Prius battery should not have been as good as an Eneloop then. And the Eneloops of that vintage were not as good as the current versions.
     
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