Rising gas prices to Help Hybrid/EV sales?

i use my savings to purchase another earth saving device.

 

I bought gas yesterday for the first time in 75 days. I think the price dropped 3c/gallon to $1.869 since June 30.

 

Bought a 2016 P because of the mpg, assuming that gas prices will start to rise. Didn't expect it so soon. However, now that Hawaii City & County may want to start taxing at miles driven vs gallons purchased...ugh !

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

I haven't heard that. Hawaii County or Honolulu C&C?

 

My bad...honolulu

Gas tax better than mileage tax | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

 

Interesting...I think it is fire-walled so we can't see it.
But if you live on a Island, how many miles is typical per year on a Prius?

 

I found this direct source:

Department of Transportation | Hawaii Department of Transportation plans mileage based user fee demonstration using federal grant

Based on this write up, it's just at the study stage. I didn't look at the proposal yet but will later.

I put in about 35-40 miles on weekdays and weekends vary depending on recreational activities, but are on average probably only 5-10 (with aberrations like this weekend when I probably did about 125).

In theory I would support some combination of this. I see how my 40 miles puts more stress on the roads than a car that has the same gas usage but half the mpg and travels half the average distance.

 

I only complain if they single out hybrids for extra taxes.
As long as hybrids are treated like others, I can't complain, I may not like it, but I cannot complain.

 

i think they should wait until ev's are more accepted. why give credits to buy them, then tax them to drive them. it's like the sales tax and internet purchases. once your settled in, then you can start the taxing.
hubrids already pay gas tax, so no need for a mileage tax there. everyone driving a suburban has the option to buy a more fuel efficient car.

 

I think most posters here probably agree there are social costs to using more gas and that should be paid for, but if we're only looking at paying for road usage, mileage-based fees make sense. If the idea is to make a "pay for what you use" system but simple enough to administer.

I think it'll be a few years before it's rolled out anyway, based on the quick skim I took of the proposal. I need to read it more thoroughly. I'm curious how they would know how many miles you drove. I don't imagine self-reporting will work.

 

technology. it's pretty simple. big brother is here.

i'm curious to know if this is a way to get everyone to pay for roads and bridges, or if it's a way to massively increase revenue without raising gas taxes.
i don't know about other states, but in ma, gas taxes go into the general fund, and road and bridge repair is optional.

 

"hubrids" gotcha back this time, ol' buddy!

 

LOL, i think i like a combination of hybrids with hubris.

 

I think mileage taxes are going to face an uphill battle for awhile, primarily because of how you can effectively bill it. In CO the fuel tax is 22 cents per gallon, plus a 1.25 cent "environmental response" surcharge, plus 18.4 cents to the federal government for a total tax of 41.65 cents per gallon. The average miles driven in Colorado is just north of 9,000 miles. Average fuel economy is a bit tough to find because everything a quick google shows me is what is listed on car (about 25 mpg) but I suspect with idling in traffic or for "warming up the car" actual average MPG of cars on the road is lower, but let's go with 25.... That puts the average coloradan burning about 360 gallons of gas per year, about $150 in gas taxes paid. People already bitch about our registration fees (the new Prius was somewhere north of $400 as I recall, an EV like a Tesla is going to be much more unless they get a break that I'm not aware of). Throwing an extra $150 on top of that is not going to get any votes. In Colorado the public will have to vote on it as it is a new tax.

I don't like it, but I think toll roads are the answer, eventually. I'm not sold that it needs to happen today, but give it maybe 10 years, certainly 20 years and I expect to see a large increase in the number of toll roads in the US with the money going to the DOT.

 

with all the new tech, and toll booths disappearing, that's an interesting idea.

 

Like installing monitors into everyone's cars? That seems too expensive and logistically difficult.

 

Toll roads are never the answer (unless you are specifically trying to reduce traffic on that road and disadvantage certain folks)
Go to IL and drive and you will immediately understand they don't work.
Our gas tax only needs to go up about 5 cents a gallon, time to bend over grab your ears and pull then increase the gas tax.
Mileage based fees should be banned, road damage is an exponent of weight, an 8000 lb vehicle does 4x the damage of a 4000lb one.
What this means is we need to get semis off the road and freight back to trains, car gas taxes subsidize semi traffic, car traffic alone would take hundreds of years to damage the road. Perhaps charge those that do the damage.

Next the Us lacks skill or competence to build a road correctly. In Germany cement roads are seamless and last 30 years with a warranty, sure they cost more up front but the cost is far lower than the every 2 year repairs we have here.

Should EVs pay special fees?
Nope, 80% of the electric cost is already tax, in this state there are 5000 plug ins, no money in taxing such a small number.

Should hybrids pay special tax?
Nope, they do minimal road damage, the last thing to do is penalize good behavior.

This whole road funding discussion has been so pathetic, just increase the bloody tax per gallon!
It's not that bloody complicated, it's the most equitable method of pay to play that we have with the lowest administrative cost.

And honestly if we wanted to bolster the gas tax, charge a "supply" tax on crude itself with the intent of placing a floor on price and eliminating the tax when crude goes up softening price fluctuations, business would hate it but it would probably be the only tax that both helps domestic production and funds roads during unusual price flops.

 

At the federal level gas is taxed at 18.4 cents, diesel is taxed at 24.4 cents. Using your example of Illinois, at the state level gas is taxed at 33.45 cents, diesel is taxed at 34.57 cents. So the semis are already taxed at a higher rate but I'm not sure if it is high enough. But the big question I have is, do you think it's not possible to toll different vehicles at different rates? A motorcycle might be free (I wish), a Prius might be 2 cents a mile, while a semi could be 3 cents a mile.

As far as decreasing traffic on a road, I suspect that only works when you have toll free roads. But if the act of paying a toll per mile reduces the amount of traffic overall, isn't that a good thing? Fewer repairs, probably cheaper repairs as you may not have to try to power through building a new bridge in one night, less pollution, more people buying things locally.... these sound like good things

 

The most equitable is fuel tax. The easiest to implement is a fuel tax. I'm not opposed to paying a higher tax on my fuel if it is applied to road maintenance. Certainly cars will be able to self report in the years to come. The insurance industry is already using those numbers where available.