Prime not coming to WA State in 2016

interesting. too bad toyota doesn't put their cards on the table and roll out a roll out report.

 

Doesn't seem like a big deal to buy in Oregon if you live in Sea-town. It will only cost 3 gallons of gas for the drive back up!

I'm sure there will be quite a few Primes in PDX, as I already see many gen IV Prii. Strangely, there are almost no PiP in the area.

 

You mean like....GM?

 

i have no idea, but if they give public access to inventory projections by dealer, yes.

 

I heard from a Toyota dealer yesterday. He said that because Prime is a "special vehicle only", would I like to buy a 2016 Prius. I asked him to clarify that and he said that a special vehicle is one that they will only have when a customer makes a special order. Not having any Primes on the lot seems like the beginning of a death spiral to me. If people can't see them in person and test drive them, why would they want to buy one? I'm wondering if 1) the 2016 Prius will go into deep discount soon to eliminate stock and 2) the 2017 Prime will be heavily rebated to cut their losses. I wonder if the general public will compare the Prime with its 25 mile EV range to other EV cars with 200+ mile ranges and dismiss it immediately. I think the 25 mile range makes perfect rational sense -- it covers the commutes of 50% of people in the U.S. -- but no emotional sense for people with range anxiety.

 

People with "range anxiety" should treat the Prime as having a 640 mile range and a 3-minute recharge time.

 

Just word-of-mouth from a service advisor at our nearby dealership: that's how they're selling the regular 2016 Prius. They get them in small quantities, with buyers lined up.

 

Strange way to run a business. You have a new model with interests from the public and they treat you like you don't know what you want. "Hear have this 2016 Prius...it is just the same".

 

This is a salesman trying to unload 2016 inventory.

 

My order was a slot for my dealer that was "unallocated" to a specific purpose, so they allocated it to my order.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

People without a business background (having taken accounting, economics, and marketing classes, then studied the automotive industry for the past few years), will have a very difficult time understanding Toyota's approach. Look forward to a lot of assumptions and greenwashing efforts as a result.

Let's start with a look back at Prius history. Rollout began in Japan. Sales began in December 1997 and continued exclusively there until August 2000 with the first major upgrade, which went to the United States exclusively. Despite providing a much improved battery-pack and more engine power, it was labeled as a first generation vehicle. Some of that came from clueless writers. Some of that came from intentional undermining. Toyota was unbothered. Rollout would only be to online orders and the vehicle wouldn't offer cruise-control. Instead, it came with a touch-screen and digital-speedometer. The reason why for such odd choices was far from obvious... until many years later.

When gen-2 was rolled out (late 2003), greenwashing spin was alive & well. Fortunately, Toyota's decision to limit Prius in such a way revealed itself to be a wise decision. They had target an audience who would become strong supporters of the technology. Rather than just rolling out to an open market, they successfully limited availability and changed expectations. The feedback from those owners really paid off too. The next generation would be configured to appeal to a much wider audience. It would also be profitable right from the very first sale. All that was a major undertaking that many had either misunderstood or went out of their way to cast doubt upon.

The rollout of gen-3 brought about quite a stir. The outgoing generation had been very successful. Could a more efficient & powerful system not only retain mainstream interest, but also attract new buyers? News of plug-in offerings sometime in the future was common, but the viability of the technology was still unproven. Longevity & Cost issues were very real concerns. The economy had fallen apart. Gas prices were bringing uncertainty. It was a challenging time, especially with the lack of reasonable competition. Prius was often paired up against Jetta TDI in bias and questionable comparisons. And of course, we now know that "clean diesel" was a massive deception.

Prius PHV rollout was to be a mid-cycle update to gen-3. The platform itself was already designed to accommodate the larger battery-pack and faster EV speed. Cost was still very expensive and the market acceptance of plugging in faced with fierce resistance. The struggle with Volt sales made it all too clear that a limited rollout would be a wise move. So as the time approached to expand availability beyond the initial 15 states arrived, Toyota decided not to. Instead, they'd continue study in the established markets to provide valuable information about how to attract buyers with the next generation instead.

In June 2015, the decision was made to end production of Prius PHV. Almost immediately, the greenwashers pounced on the opportunity to deceive about Toyota's intent. They'd raise doubt and draw conclusions based solely on specific observations, absolutely refusing to acknowledge the fallout of having to deal with the very problem Volt now faces with having become known as a niche and being configured accordingly. The did everything in their power to deny the possibility that a much improved plug-in hybrid system was in development and that promoting the old one any further would have negative consequences.

Early this year, we discovered just how wrong those greenwashers were... and how they'd quickly change their claims, focusing attention on perceived shortcomings instead. The exclusion of a middle seat is the obvious new highlight. Toyota's effort to explore & expand is outright dismissed. That 5th could be offered later. But then again, maybe it won't. Product diversification would suggest offering in on second vehicle choice instead. Whatever the case, it has been a distraction from the technology... a clear effort to undermine.

The raised floor is another obvious issue of dissension. Toyota's choice of function over form is not new. They saw the benefit from that change of approach and went for it. The cargo benefit of a hatchback comes primarily from the ability to carry long & wide objects. The height of objects wasn't even mentioned until 9 years later when the wagon model was introduced. Notice how that touch-screen and digital-speedometer are still standard, despite having been a profound change for a vehicle's dashboard? Who will really take issue with it not being as tall? Look at how well small SUVs sell, even though they offer a lot of height but very little depth behind the seats.

What allows you to draw conclusions about approach and believe it cannot change during the generation's availability. So what if Prime may only be initially available to those who are willing to hunt one down, rather than stumble across it on the dealer's showroom floor? That exactly how sales began for the no-plug model all those years ago. Heck, even the battery-pack was upgraded mid-cycle back then. Who's to say that same strategy won't work again?

Think about all the unanswered questions we have. Even as well-informed online participants seeking out information, we simply don't know yet. Would you really want newbies learning about the system based on anecdotal observation, rather than basing results on a good understanding of the basics? That's a recipe for disaster. Driving conditions vary far too much for generalizations. Letting us identify a solid working knowledge first, then come up with a simple way to share that, is priceless.

In other words, patience.

 

Leave it to john to make sense when we want to vent about not getting it NOW. Thanks, john.

 

If Dianne in Carson can get a ton of Primes in the next several months, she's going to get rich selling them to all of us with our idiotic local dealer mentalities. I'm in Illinois (Chicago) and it isn't much different here. They aren't going to get them soon, and if they could, they don't really want to stock any. Pretty sad state of affairs. I can realistically see myself flying to Cali and driving a Prime back to Illinois sometime early in 2017.

...Then there's GM, who really want to sell their plug in cars everywhere, it seems.

 

I'm not sure your use of greenwash is accurate. Greenwashing is giving the appearance of being environmentally minded, while downplaying the damage done to the environment.

Anyhow, great comments.

Fixed the misplaced parenthesis. It tripped me up for a second.

You'll have to pay CA sales tax unless you have the car shipped outside the state by an authorized shipper with a bill of lading. I once researched buying an Acura from Phoenix since the TSX I wanted was so rare. Same thing, I would have had to ship it to avoid state sales tax. That would have added $500 to my cost.

Shipping it to your location would be cheaper than flying out, getting a motel room, and all that.

 

How can we find out about the public's response to the Prime? Through news articles and such? Perish the thought, but if the response is low/negative, is it conceivable that a car company would not release a model even after it's been announced?

 

no. if toyota makes a car people want, it will sell well. if dealers have demand, they will pressure toyota for more product. all this remains to be seen.
what toyota doesn't want is what happened to the pip, and what is happening to gen 4. they do have a clue about gas prices, and how well their trucks and suv's are selling.
as john said, this is going to be a 6 year ramp up, not a ton of sales out the gate.

 

I see it as a sign they're not serious about the plug-in, not willing to invest more engineering.

 

wouldn't function over form meaning designing the outside of the car so the hatch wouldn't have a raised floor?

 

Unfortunately, I'm impatient. I want it now and I want it perfect, now.

If that's true, why sacrifice coefficient of drag for ugly styling?