Featured Toyota is planning long-range battery-powered electric cars for 2020 as its hydrogen fuel cells cars

When is the last time the average driver saw a charging station? It seems to me it is a chicken or egg situation. Until consumers see them as everywhere, they won't buy EVs in quantity. And until the EVs are out there in quantity, where is the economic incentive to install chargers at most locations? It is a version of the network effect. The more people use them the more there are the more valuable they become.

I think of my wife who panics when her gas gauge sinks to the 1/2 full stage. Would she go on the 70 mile one way trip she just left on? At half full, she was filling up at $2.039/gal before the trip. Range anxiety is not limited to EV powered cars.

You need to be able to charge at the average hotel/motel you stay at. At the fast food place you stop at for lunch. At any Walmart/Costco. Hospital. Or at least across the street. With a standardized plug. And a credit card or whatever the future fintech dictates.

As commuter cars, sure. Second cars, somewhat. HOV rule-beaters, yep. But those are limited markets in the US.

In cities that ban gas vehicles or much smaller countries, a different story.

 

that's why government has to get involved, to pick up the unprofitable slack. build the charging network, and ev's will come.

 

The pragmatic plug in proponents aren't hoping for everyone to suddenly stop buying non-plug in cars tomorrow, next week, or next month. Just getting the people in which a currently available BEV works as a second commuter vehicle to get one will have an impact on our petroleum use and the issues that go along with it. For that, it just needs to sink into the public consciousness that a BEV doesn't need public chargers for daily use, and the cars will leave home everyday with a full 'tank'. The majority are already use to plugging in a phone, tablet, or laptop everyday.

The sub-100 mile BEVs are a tough sell with the public's unknowns in regards to range and weather and battery degradation. They needed public chargers to ease range anxiety. With the longer range BEVs coming out, those chargers aren't as needed, but the owners of those cars will start building the demand for fast chargers required to shift BEVs to a primary car.

Then public charging will never cover the entire country, and some won't be willing to wait for fast charging. In those cases, PHEVs and range extended EVs will be available.

They are. There's a thread here on the US DOT designating EV corridors on the freeway system, and helping to fund chargers along them.

 

oh, i thought i was in that thread.

 

It's hard to believe how blown out of proportion and complete disregard for the business a select few people will take a situation.

First, what Lexus does has nothing to do with Toyota. They are separate divisions.

Second, each automaker is a primary purpose of making profit, not being a green savior.

Third, you have to be rather clueless to believe an ordinary consumer could care less

Fourth, anything can be taken out of context, especially with a quickly changing industry.

Need I say more? Pretty much everything happening now will go almost entirely unnoticed. The mainstream isn't ready, so they aren't paying attention. Think about how absurd other claims were by automakers now supporting EV sales. We don't actually see any volume, yet they are praised for delivering very little

Put it this way, Toyota is the hidden giant. They have been producing lithium batteries in high volume for gen-4 Prius. No one has really noticed that ramp up though. But it's exactly what's needed to ensure a strong rollout of Prius Prime. We get an affordable electric-only platform. Who cares if some of the tech came from hydrogen research. For that matter, who cares how small battery-packs start out at. All if it contributes to a competitive EV offering in a few years.

 

Lexus is a wholy owned business unit of toyota motor company. Whenever they quote number of hybrids sold, toyota includes lexus. I'm sure you know this and just are being a little coy. They have the same chairman of the board and CEO. They share much engineering and purchasing. Lexus has different quality control.

Tesla's primary purpose is to change the fuel we use to drive, and make elon musk super rich!

But yes profit, employment, perks, etc are the most important things for most auto makers.
Toyota Global Site | Guiding Principles

I would not say short term profit is primary for toyota at all either.

The prius sold a lot of camries and corrollas. Count everyone that believes those business cases clueless. What Marketing credentials do you have again?

Sure of course. I think Lexus's north american leadership is misguided. You think its peachy (note out of date expression ;-)). I'm sure they will change or lose a lot of market share.

 

What part of diversity needs further clarification? Running the two divisions exactly the same way makes no sense.

 

i applaud toyota for allowing lexus to tease plug ins while toyota tries to sell one.

 

Both have the same chairman of the board that is pro hydrogen and anti-EV. I think this article if true is a good change. Then Lexus will have to drop its anti plug-in BS.

What about that is hard to understand. I am not saying anything controversial. I think if toyota gets in the game they will stop using their political muscle to push fuel cells, and slow adoption of plug-ins. IMHO plug-ins are the best chance for the US to lose dependance on foreign oil. I want to see Toyota working towards not against that goal.

 

not if they don't make a lexus plug in.

 

Dang it. Now I'll have to drive my daily rider over to the local Lexus dealer and ask,'Wha'ca got that can replace my BMW i3-REx?'

Bob Wilson

 

done and done.

Note. Lexus adverting execs had the gas door airbrushed out of the i3-rex shown in this extended version of the commercial

 

Is OK as we've already done the 700 mile, round trip to Oklahoma and back. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

 

What bugs me is they are saying they will use Corolla or Prius platform to build electric SUV
Exclusive: Toyota to mass-produce electric vehicles- Nikkei Asian Review

Why electric SUV?
Why not dedicated EV platform?
Where will they put the battery? A little in front, a little in the back or under floor?

This reads as half-assed effort, even they probably don't know what will come out of it.

 

Knowing your audience translates to half-assed effort? No, it's called market awareness.

Notice what happened with the election yesterday? You can suggest a dedicated EV platform all you want, knowing it is the better choice, but that doesn't mean people will buy it. We are a market obsessed with consumption and making bad choices.

Look at how poorly Volt has sold and how popular Outlander is. That struggle for sales GM has had is far from what Mitsubishi is experiencing. They are both plug-in hybrids. The dedicated platform Volt offers simply doesn't appeal to the masses like a compact SUV with a plug does.

Like it or not, that's reality. We have to find a way of playing the game. Notice how popular the hybrid RAV4 is. Why not offer a model with plug augmentation?

 

It's a start in the new direction for Toyota, we are all eager for a detailed plan, but we will have to wait for it. True, it's a little early to call it half-assed.

 

TGNA approach says it all. It is possible to design very quickly, almost custom made, a new model.

 

What I didn't like about TGNA is the absence of a battery pack 'place'. My concern is the battery will be shoe-horned into the cabin and that is the wrong place. It really needs to cover the bottom of the vehicle. It is also one of the reasons I'm not fond of the Volt "T".

Bob Wilson

 

The platforms car companies have, or are developing, are designed to support such varying vehicle models and sizes. The Highlander has been based upon the Camry platform since its introduction. Changes to a FWD platform to support an under belly battery pack should not be cost prohibitive.

Along with being popular in the US and China, an SUV also has more space underneath for the battery than a comparable car. It is why GM started with the Trax platform for the bolt.

The T battery is a carry over from the EV1. Under the floor is better, but not perfect. For most cars, it results in raising the height, increasing frontal area, and thus increasing the air drag on the car. Or it results in lower ground clearance. The Tesla has the pack with the lowest vertical height. Cars equipped with the active suspension ended up being too close to the road at highway speeds, and road debris ended up piercing the the pack and starting a fire. The fix was better armor in the front for higher cost, and increasing ground clearance, with increased drag, at higher speeds.

The T battery, or one just down the 'transmission' tunnel, could be a better choice for a car destined for only 2 or 4 seats. I believe the Prime would have been better with it. There isn't much need for open floor space in the middle rear when there is only two seats there. With a T pack in the middle and under the rear seat, the battery and other equipment for the solar roof option would be moved to the rear. Cars equipped with the option could have the cargo space of the gen4 with spare. Without it, cargo space without spare, or a plug in first, a spare tire.

 

I really felt that when I had to use a BMW Series 2 as a loaner when my BMW i3-REx was having some warranty maintenance done. It felt like sitting down in a bath tub and that was the view of traffic. Really hated it.

Bob Wilson