Featured Bolt the cannibal and used hybrid/plug-in generator

i just don't get the negativity of this thread. is it only gm dislike? or are there good reasons not to want to see a 230 mile bev enter the marketplace?

 

The direct subisidies for GM would be gone quickly with or without bolt simply on the volt.
GM needs cafe credits, which have bonuses for plug-ins. Now Rick Perry and Scott Pruitt in DOE and EPA perhaps the standards will be rolled back. I hope not. Regardless Bolt is a step in the right direction.

It gives variety and likely will be the best selling bev not with a T on the front. Still it doesn't appear as financially viable as a tesla. It still should help GMs tarnished brand.

I too would like GM to offer a plug-in cute ute. I think by the time they come out though tesla will have a model Y out (CUV version of the model 3). It would therefore likely be more sucessful as a phev that does not have to be compared head to head with a real technology disruption company.

 

What was the point of "Voltec" (second-generation Two-Mode system, with a plug added) rolled out in 2010, then upgraded again in 2015, if there was no intention of ever using it in a SUV of any size? This is exactly what I mean about kicking the can. How much longer must we wait for the need to finally be addressed?

We were shown a prototype 9 years ago, at the Detroit 2008 auto show. Anyone remember GM's Green-Line vehicles? That next step of introducing a Saturn Vue which used Two-Mode with a plug was to fulfill the dreams of many. Bankruptcy negotiations in 2009 even addressed that program, resulting in assurance of was no reason for a "too little, too slowly" concern.

Now, after nearly a decade, some are wondering why we are so negative. Really! Why shouldn't we be? How many "under promise, under deliver" rollouts should we be willing to accept, especially when it comes with federal assistance in several forms? We should be pushing GM hard to finally offer more than just a halo or niche vehicle. The masses need a choice.

Cannibalization (like how Bolt will take away Volt sales) isn't a wise move. That's why getting Equinox buyers to purchase a plug-in hybrid model makes so much sense. Yet, we hear nothing. Not even a peep, despite promises of a small SUV offering a plug, makes you wonder. Will GM squander away all their tax-credits on Bolt to compete with Tesla, rather than actually improving their own product-line?

 

i guess we'll just have to wait for toyota, i hope they don't keep kicking the can too much longer.

 

Are you being sarcastic?

RAV4 hybrid hasn't even finished its first year yet. Sales will be around 45,000 too, which is outstanding for a debut. The next step is to establish the plug-in upgrade, which is already under way with Prius Prime.

They are clearly making an effort to target their own customers, striving to offer realistic upgrade choices. RAV4 hybrid clearly had an audience of RAV4 buyers. A plug-in model will as well.

 

They likely won't get the manual option on the diesel, but then it is disappearing from the gasoline models too.

The Rav4 hybrid is doing great, but how long did it take Toyota to offer it? IIRC, the Escape hybrid was a 2005 model year. The people were likely asking for a hybrid Rav4 since it arrived. I joined PriusChat around then, and posters were asking for one and a minivan for nearly all that time. What's going to be the first hybrid minivan of any kind here? An effing Chrysler from a company run by a guy that begged with people to not buy their compliance plug in, and is cancelling their Corolla sized cars.

Great if Toyota expands the Prime line up, but the evidence at this point is against them doing so with any speed.

 

why don't you quit wining and run for president of GM.

The volt came out in December 2010, now I know how some like to count funny, but to most of us that is 6 years not 10. With many predicting the volt would be a disaster and cancelled, there is a second generation and a bolt and possibillities to be extended. The first toyota fc prototype came out over 20 years ago and despite massive government payments the mirai looks like anouther fail. I know some liked to point to articles assuming volt would be dead in 2013 or 2014, so what is all the fake tears about. It is less than the optimist (disgraced bob lutz) promised, but much more than the pessimists expected. There is some wonderful tech here. The volt has sold more than any other plug-in in the US, so if there is foot dragging it appears to be by other car makers. Of course we all forcast that the model 3 will quickly outpace volt numbers which is why gm needs to keep up with the volt. Japanese group think has missed the mark, but we can hope the new retooled and redesigned prime and gen II leaf can surpass volt numbers.

So what is the point of continuously crying that the glass is half full. It gets fuller every year. The volt + bolt definitely look like a big step up from the gen I volt by itself. The tesla model 3 looks like a block buster. The ford fussion energi has slowly been amassing sales and a full redesign of a midsized phev likely will sell well. BMW and Mercedes have entered the game, and toyota is back with the prime. 2016 is a growth year, and 2018 looks like a break out.

If you keep adding to a half full glass.... Its going to be full soon.

 

First, what does "any speed" mean?

Second, where's this evidence?































FREAKING MERGED JOHN, USE MULTI QUOTE

Interesting how you made it personal, rather than acknowledge the evidence presented: SATURN VUE PLUG-IN

We were shown that in 2008, with expectations of that being a premiere vehicle to the new GM. Why is that so easily dismissed, despite its successor (Equinox) being such a popular purchase choice for GM customers? Shouldn't something... anything... better than the traditional choice be a realistic expectation now?

Notice how Toyota has been offering Highlander and RX400 for many years now? What's with the double-standard of not expecting GM to do something similar for their traditional buyers?

 

Of toyota having a long schedule to update the prius phv, now known as prime? Prius is on a 6 year cycle, prime appears after that cycle, that means if the next prius is likely not until 2021 or 2022, and the next prime 2022 or later. Do you have indications that they are moving faster.

 

News is the 6-speed manual will be standard.
Chevrolet prices diesel Cruze from $24,670

 

Not personal, but the hubris is kind of insulting to all your readers.

I certainly had no expectations of a vue plug-in. I had expectations in 2008 that GM might kill the saturn division, and the tech would be orphaned.

Seriously I'm not a SUV guy, and never was a saturn fan, why would you believe there was a soon to be saturn VUE SUV when GM was hemmeraging all that cash. Its pretty obvious with 2020 hindsight. I am willing to bet you didn't really believe that there would be a saturn plug-in developed during gm's financial crisis.

I doubt with low gas prices many will buy a cruze diesel.

 

i wonder how many will shy away from any diesel at any gas price because of vdub fiasco.

 

The people interested in the GM dealers are ex-TDI owners. I'm still a member over there at Fred's TDI.

 

Many believed those promises. They gobbled up hype. That was the point. People bought an idea, not a vehicle.

I knew from the initial reveal it wasn't going to happen... and got attack relentlessly for providing evidence to support that. In fact, to this day, there are some who still hold some resentment toward me for the vaporware claims... since those were proven true.

Being able to logically reason through spin, able to analyze facts, puts in at odds with the majority... who react from their gut and believe hype. They want to be sold hope... and find ways to excuse resulting failures.

I see a mismatch of action & goal. An analogy is a teacher assigning homework and the students handing in something well done, but not at all what was assigned. In other words, how does Bolt or Volt change what Malibu, Cruze, and Equinox shoppers actually purchase? With Toyota, we see a clear effort with Prius Prime to reach out beyond Prius buyers... the hope of attracting Camry & Corolla buyers without cannibalizing Prius sales. It's a move to diversify, just like the introduction of RAV4.

 

might get one pip owner, who knows?

 

I think the Bolt will deliver as promised, however I imagine they may not have great longevity. Coming from an ex GM buyer it'd take more than an impressive range to get me back in the showroom. The Bolt will have to prove its reliability and real world usefulness to make an impact.












MERGED

Great example, Toyota's hybrid lineup takes what the customers are shopping for and roles that into their models. GM is almost a patchwork of models thrown together in a desperate attempt to satisfy all.

 

agree on gm, but i think they've already proven it with the volt.
as for toyota, great with the hybrids, but sloooooowwwwwww with the plug.

 

i guess i missed the snark. no skin off my back. i try not to take things personally. i wasn't enamored with the volt, but it proved to be a good car for many people.
i'll test drive the bolt and give it consideration when it's available. wish it was larger w/150 mile range, but that too will come.
prime does look good, but could have done better.
i'm just not a diesel guy, would like to see them wiped from the face of the earth.