1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Prius Prime Plus in my hands

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by bwilson4web, Jan 19, 2017.

Page 10 of 31
  1. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,023
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    The only videoed run to 60 I've seen worked out to about 53kW in Ev mode. I'm now wondering if there's a trick to activating dual-motor mode. That run also included wheel spin because it was done on wet ground.
     
    #181 Lee Jay, Feb 12, 2017
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,668
    49,371
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    phev's are the new bridge to bev's. 10 or 15 years i'm estimating.
     
    #182 bisco, Feb 12, 2017
    thatoneraccoon likes this.
  3. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    730
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Hate to quote myself but cannot edit anymore...
    Here is Texas Instruments description of my statement above:
    The duty cycle of the pilot signals communicates the limit of current the EVSE is capable of supplying to the vehicle; the vehicle can then use up to that amount of current for its charging circuitry. This current rating is primarily determined by the electromechanical components in the EVSE, such as conductors, relays, contactors, and the service connection.
    And:
    In this design, the PWM is generated by a timer module on the MSP430 MCU. The current rating can typically be set as a permanent value in the firmware because it is so tightly coupled to the external hardware. i.e. the EVSE
    Advanced EVSEs with a human machine interface (HMI) can enable the current to be derated if the service line is unable to provide enough current with a stable voltage. A significant voltage drop as a result of wire loss is possible in these high current applications.
     
    #183 giora, Feb 12, 2017
  4. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,508
    14,109
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    My sentiments, exactly! I love this PiP. No complaints at all. Fantastic efficiency. But, I'd be in a Prime in a heartbeat if it was financially within reach. My work commute is within range of the battery most of the time, but the Prime would open up even more options. Today I drove over 40 miles, with the only charge being the full charge when I left the house. Managed 82 mpg on the trip with two passengers and running the A/C most of the way. I wonder what a Prime would have done! I know it would take forever to pay for the upgrade, but the cool factor is enormous. (y)
     
    #184 jerrymildred, Feb 12, 2017
    Nic Steussy and thatoneraccoon like this.
  5. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    602
    278
    0
    Location:
    SW US
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    At least 130 MPG, as much as 170 MPG

    I expect to get close to 90 MPG on my 90 mile commute with one charge in a Prime
     
    #185 EV-ish, Feb 12, 2017
    jerrymildred and giora like this.
  6. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    730
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    That is IMO the way to report a Prime: trip length, mpg, kWh consumed. I whish kWh consumed was on the trip report display.
     
    #186 giora, Feb 12, 2017
    jerrymildred likes this.
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    So we have both a 2017 Prius Prime and 2014 BMW i3-REx . . . which one to drive today:
    • BMW i3-REx - best urban car, a pocket rocket with a high seating and excellent view. The power to weight ratio means point and scoot and the short wheel base parks easy. It has acceptable cross-country capability but stay near interstates especially at night as it is 80 miles per segment and carry a 1 gallon spare can.
    • Prius Prime Plus - best cross country car, smooth, excellent suspension and outstanding highway MPG. Visibility is much improved over our Gen-3 and the dynamic cruise control is great. Around town, know your charging locations and shop at nearby stores. The traction battery charges ~40% or 10 miles per hour and has no fast charging. In town, it drives like a tuned-up Prius, more than adequate.
    Bob Wilson
     
    #187 bwilson4web, Feb 14, 2017
  8. stephensprius

    stephensprius Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    670
    226
    0
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    very cool post. thanks for sharing! love the tail lights and how toyota changed it from the regular prius,
     
    #188 stephensprius, Feb 14, 2017
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    First visit to Toyota Service Center and I'm taking printed copies of:
    • RM1::ZOBY - Hybrid Transaxle Fluid Replacement - along with a sample bottle and plastic bag and instructions for a full sample.
    • RM1::10216 - Engine Oil and Filter - along with a sample bottleand a plastic bag and a second bag for the used oil filter.
    • RM1::Z1LV - Front Wheel Alignment - with stickies to write down the values measured and any correction.
    • RM1::Z1LW - Rear Wheel Alignment - with stickies to write down the values measured and any correction.
    I will ask them to NOT rotate the tires this time, just check the alignment. I'll take my own tread depth measurements. I won't tell them about the fully inflated tires but will check and correct them soon as I'm 'out of view' and reset the tire pressure monitoring system.

    Bob Wilson

    ps. "::" is IPv6 notation for a whole bunch of zeros.
     
    #189 bwilson4web, Feb 15, 2017
    Prodigyplace likes this.
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Got the engine and transmission oil samples today and they look moderately used. The real proof comes from the R&G Labs analysis. I also got the filter element and will ask R&G if they also have an analysis of them too.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #190 bwilson4web, Feb 16, 2017
    Prodigyplace likes this.
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I bought a month of TIS access to answer some basic questions:
    • the one-way clutch is on the engine side of the flywheel
    • the EGR tap is between two, three-way catalytic converters
    • both front and rear toe adjustable, front camber adjustable
    I'll be investigating other features. If someone has a specific question, let me know.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #191 bwilson4web, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
    EV-ish and Fred_H like this.
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Rather than risk violating copyright, here is a side view of the one-way, clutch:
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    #192 bwilson4web, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
    Fred_H and giora like this.
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    . . . the spreadsheet model:
    • ~122 MPG @21-22 mph - Level 2 ECO
    • ~115 MPG @20 mph - Prius Prime
      • 105.5 MPG @28 mph for 10.5 miles
      • 55.7 MPG @60-65 mph for 1,200 miles
    • ~105 MPG @25 mph - Gen-3 Prius
      • 99 MPG @25 mph, limit of vehicle meter
    Finally got in the standard day temperature range, more data points:
    mph MPG
    1 28 105.5
    2 35 88.5
    3 55 69.8
    4 75 48.2

    These are outstanding numbers.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #193 bwilson4web, Feb 22, 2017
    EV-ish, Prodigyplace and Lee Jay like this.
  14. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,023
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I assume all Hv, started and ended with no Ev range?

    Since you're interested in testing (and since I don't have one yet), you might consider trying alternating between charge mode and Ev mode at the lower speeds and see what happens.
     
    #194 Lee Jay, Feb 22, 2017
  15. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    602
    278
    0
    Location:
    SW US
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Indeed. Here are your data points in a graph.
    For me the magic number is 60 MPG at ~ 64 MPH.

    Screen Shot 2017-02-22 at 8.39.37 AM.png
     
    #195 EV-ish, Feb 22, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus


    Correct, the raw numbers and order driven:
    mph miles MPG notes
    1 35 10.7 88.5 A local business loop at 3 AM non-stop same start and stop point.
    2 55 7.8 56.0 Gallons consumed each way were
    3 55 7.5 87.2 summed along with miles each way.
    4 55 7.6 61.3 Then the MPG calculated from the sums.
    5 55 7.8 86.2 Rideout Road / Research Blvd route
    6 75 12.2 51.7 Gallons and distance summed for each pass
    7 75 12.5 45.1 used for MPG calculation. I-565 route.

    • 2100 miles on car
    • engine oil and transmission oil changed at 2000 miles
    • tires fully inflated, 44 psi, 1800 miles
    • driver, two dogs, and half a tank of gas
    • no surface winds, temps 59-62F, dry pavement
    • 3 AM - 5 AM to avoid traffic
    • does NOT include deceleration or acceleration
    • warm-up: 7.2 miles EV for transmission followed by ~6 miles ICE to 35 mph loop
    • not part of test, total EV miles on trip meter, 28 mi, over two days
    Bob Wilson
     
    #196 bwilson4web, Feb 22, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  17. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    1,072
    405
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    FYI - I've driven multiple BMWs, they are awesome, powerful and comfortable. My Prime Premium sits close to being up there in comfort and fun to drive. It's a broader type of fun being able to curb your driving habits and control the car (almost like a Manual) on how energy flows.

    On my 50 mile one-way trip to work I have ranged anywhere from 80 mpg in single digits to 130 in 40 degree weather. I would believe 50 or 60 would be the Prime point.

    I'm actually really enjoying the car, the safety features and dynamic cruise control is ridiculous. Our Pacifica will come with that too but that will be the true test on how Toyota lives up to their experience. Then again a lot of R&D went into the Pacifica.

    FYI, I had a person come up to me and said "Nice Car!" I thanked him and watched him walk into his damn Tesla. Now if Tesla owners are commenting on the Prime that's saying something! Maybe it's not a "wannabe" Tesla after all. But come on Toyota, there is so much you can do with that screen....

    And of course 5 seats lol. I'm still a little ripped on it.

    FYI, anyone else seeing that at 18 cents per kWH and around $2.00 a gallon for Gas the Prime is cheaper to drive!? I'll post more on the Prime vs PiP thread but I'm getting around 32 miles EV in 40 degree weather around town.

    Take the Volt 1.0 out for a drive in the Winter, I bet you it matches Prime in EV range or LESS...
     
    #197 inferno, Feb 22, 2017
    john1701a and bisco like this.
  18. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    602
    278
    0
    Location:
    SW US
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Time to get cracking on some PV.
    I anticipate 2.5 cents a kWh on the PV I'm placing next month.
     
    #198 EV-ish, Feb 22, 2017
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Ok,

    It looks like my 35 mph benchmark was not throughly warmed up. I'll have to replicate it. In the meanwhile, here is the drag-power based, mph vs MPG curve and data points:
    [​IMG]
    An ad hoc, 35 mph test came out 93-97 MPG today. I'll update the chart but we nailed it. Unlike our Gen-3, I get the impression the SOC variances can be higher in the prime.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #199 bwilson4web, Feb 22, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
    bisco and Lee Jay like this.
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,668
    49,371
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    the prime is cheaper to drive than what?
     
    #200 bisco, Feb 22, 2017
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 10 of 31