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My first ever Prius and first ever Toyota. First maintenance task: Spark plugs

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by VFerdman, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    Oh! Please say more about the bladder. I am totally ignorant here. Is the tank not a rigid gas tank as in normal cars? I had no idea there was any kind of bladder in the fuel system. Please enlighten me!

    As for the first click, well I got the first click at like 5 gallons and I knew that was not real, so I re-positioned the nozzle and got to 8.4 gallons, but at that point the nozzle clicked no matter how I re-positioned it, so I stopped. I am not a fan of topping off passed the first click. My other cars I know exactly how to position that nozzle to get a full tank and when it clicks I stop filling. This is a new car to me, so I had no idea how it worked with the filling nozzles. At 5 gallons I knew I had it in "wrong", so I re-positioned. I'll get used to it, I am sure, but it would be useful to know how the gas storage system works on these cars if it's not as usual. Many things in this car are very unusual and that's fine, since the gas mileage is also quite unusual :) I am eager to learn.
     
  2. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    I figured vacuum filling is best. I am not sure I am going to do a DIY thing with a shop vac, though I not opposed to it. Also, my compressor is not a monster, it can go to 100PSI, though (rated at 125), so I figure I'll just get an appropriate tool. I am just wondering which one is a good price/performance deal out there. They seem to be around $70-$80 with free shipping.

    And do I really need 3 gallons of coolant? From what I saw it takes just over 2 gallons, so the 3rd gallon is needed, but you only use a bit of it.
     
  3. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Yeah, you'll need several fill-ups to get a better handle on mpg's as the bladder doesn't allow for consistent fills. So, it's highly doubtful you got 52 mpg doing 75mph, fully loaded with A/C. The consumption display figure is usually 3-5% high so your 49mpg displayed is probably a more real world 45-47ish; still not bad at all considering the circumstances.
     
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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The kits usually consist of some tubing, a valve or pinch clamp or two, some kind of stopper to fit the filler neck (you'd want to make sure you can fit both the engine radiator and the inverter reservoir necks), and the little venturi vacuum generator that makes it all go (with an air supply from your compressor).

    If you have most of that stuff in your junk drawer, you can get a vacuum generator from, for example, Vaccon (their Mini J series does the trick nicely, and can be handy for other times you might want to pull a vacuum for some reason). You cannot get a deep enough vacuum that way for A/C work, but a JS can pull down to -28", which is good enough for a lot of other messing around. You can also get one in pink to support breast cancer research. A rubber stopper that fits your filler necks, you can probably find at the hardware store, and drill a hole through.

    You might not save money that way, but you'll be able to know the specs of the vacuum generator you're getting, and you can choose from the catalog one that's well matched to your compressor capacity. Buying a prefab 'refill kit', you don't have any choice in the vacuum generator that's included, and it probably won't even have specs shown.

    If you're selecting one, say, from Vaccon, you get your choice of vacuum depth (JS, pulling down to -28", is the deepest in that line), then whether you want to feed it 80 psi or 60 psi (with your compressor, you could choose either), and then choose its SCFM air consumption to not exceed what your compressor's capable of at that pressure. The different SCFM capacities only affect how long it will take to pull your coolant loop down to the spec'd vacuum depth.

    Vacuum refilling isn't as tidy and foolproof as you might think, though. Even if you can pull -28" (which is darned good for a venturi generator), that's not a "full" vacuum by any means (atmospheric pressure is 29-and-change), so still there is some air in there when you're done. Make sure your source of coolant is higher than the engine and the fill tube you're using is already full of the coolant. If your source bottle is down low and you think the juice will be sucked upward, it will, but only until the vacuum inside drops to equal the height difference down to your bottle, and you'll have a partial fill.

    You get basically one shot. If you give it your first shot and discover you didn't get a complete fill, put aside any thought of just opening the vacuum valve and trying again. The hoses will collapse inward, allowing your partial coolant fill to reach the vacuum generator and be sprayed exuberantly out the exhaust end. Your friends will immortalize this on youtube. It won't hurt anything but your pride, as long as you mop it off any painted surfaces quickly enough. If the first shot doesn't go right, you have to drain again and start over.

    In my Gen 3, I discovered Toyota really got the fill-and-bleed-by-hand procedure perfected (especially with the little bleed valve they added behind the EGR cooler) that it just goes very smoothly and is less trouble than even digging the vacuum tool out of the drawer. I've never owned a Gen 2 so I don't know how that compares. So, yeah, the vacuum method is cool, but the old-fashioned way may not be as much headache as you think.

    -Chap
     
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  5. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    Okay, that sounds reasonable. Can you explain what that bladder thing is? I had no idea this car had a fuel bladder. What's that all about?

    If I got 45-47ish, I am still very happy. Not all the miles were at 75mph, either. About 250 probably were highway. I cruise at 73-74 mph unless there is reason not to. the rest of the miles were on small roads with occasional traffic and lights.

    So far this Prius is providing a very good owner/driver experience. I really enjoy driving it. I enjoy seeing that MPG report as I drive. I am not a crazy driver, but I like occasional fast driving. I think this car handles well enough and is fairly comfortable on a long trip (for me, anyway). There are a few annoyances that are minor, like the auto-dimming rear view mirror. I would much rather have the manual version, but I do love the garage door opener built into it. Again, really minor things are in the negative category so far and huge positive points. I hope this continues, but the first impression is very good.
     
  6. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    Ehhh,

    A couple PVC bits, a conical stopper (or barb-fitting to the radiator overflow) combined with a jug of mixed coolant under the car with a hose to the radiator drain and you can easily fill for cheap money.

    Bottom filling is the preferred method, but yes you do need to keep pulling that vacuum to complete the job.

    DO NOT use a vacuum PUMP meant for AC work, unless you plan to NEVER use it for AC work again. Not only can that much moisture damage the pump, but no antifreeze formulation is good for the pump guts.
     
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  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    There's enough verbiage here on PC about the Gen 2 fuel bladder to fill several full encyclopedias. Rather than add to it, I'll just paste a link to the search I did. https://priuschat.com/search/39193464/?q=bladder&o=relevance

    Most of it is rants about the way it makes it so impossible to tell if you've actually filled the tank or not. In my humble opinion, it's not that big of a deal, but it is to some people. I do think it's probably the worst of the quirks Toyota engineered into the Gen 2 Prius ... or maybe any other car, too, for that matter. I always went to the first click and rounded up to the next dime. Then did it again when the gauge got down to one or two pips.
     
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  8. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    Okay, I will do some reading about the fuel bladder. Thank you.
     
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  9. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    Just ordered a vacuum coolant filler and another (3rd) gallon of Toyota LLC. I have noticed that Zerex has an "Asian Car" formula (also pink) and states right on the label that it is safe for Toyotas (and other Asian brands). It is $15 and change for a gallon of the 50/50 mix vs. Toyota's $22. Anyone use this stuff? Seems like it should work just fine, but I am already on the Toyota LLC wagon. Next change may have to try the Zerex if there are positive experiences here.

    P.S. Reading on the fuel tank bladder is fascinating!
     
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  10. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    If nothing else, DO NOT OVERFILL, as in "burp" the tank or add more fuel after the nozzle clicks off the FIRST time.
     
  11. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    I admit to using "fill fit" aftermarket coolant, I have neither the time not inclination to drive 2 hours round trip to the nearest dealer.

    Fluids are *mostly* universal, meaning if they have the needed additives and/or classifications, OEM is absolutely NOT required. that said, there are cases (Honda motorcycle cooling and VW transmissions) where about the only place you CAN get the right stuff is the OEM dealer. Some of that is due to marketing (license fees) and other times it just does matter, the aftermarket simply is not good enough. This was true with Allison Tran-Syn two decades or so back.
     
  12. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    If I saw the Zerex before I bought the Toyota stuff, I would have gone for that. Everyone on here said "just get the Toyota stuff" and it's good advice, but I think this Zerex stuff is specifically formulated for Toyota and other Asian makes. It is probably perfectly safe and I have read on other (non-Prius) Toyota forums that it's good stuff for these cars. At the savings of $7/gallon it's nothing to sneeze at. Next time...
     
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