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Featured New high-power hybrid option in all Toyota hybrids

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by GasperG, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    At first I thought that C-HR Hy-Power CONCEPT is only a design change that will be shown on Frankfurt motor show, but apparently there is also some form of tune up to the 1.8 hybrid system:

    New high-power hybrid powertrain

    The concept has been designed around the use of a new hybrid powertrain that offers more power and performance than the 122 DIN hp system featured in the current production Toyota C-HR. This reflects a significant and strategic future development of Toyota’s world-leading technology that will higher performance hybrid options being made available in all its core models. More details regarding this expansion of hybrid will be revealed early in 2018.
    TOYOTA C-HR Hy-Power CONCEPT

    [​IMG]

    Apparently all models will get a tuned up version of hybrid system, will they do this by tuning up the engine, the hybrid system or both? We will see in early 2018.
     
    #1 GasperG, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  2. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Another news, but sadly for now it seems two hybrid options will be available only in Europe:

    Dr. Johan Van Zyl, President and CEO of Toyota Motor Europe, announced today that in future it is Toyota ambition to provide its core models with a choice of two hybrid powertrains.

    One will provide the traditional benefits of efficiency and fuel economy, like in the current offer.

    The second will build on this and add more power and a more dynamic driving character.

    More details about these plans will be revealed early next year.
    Toyota to expand the hybrid choice to two on its core models in Europe
     
  3. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    @Prius Team is taking notes I hope.
    The demand is here in the US too.
     
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  4. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    I'm not sure there is that much people knocking on Toyota's door asking for a "powered" HV. I truly believe there is more demand for PHEVs and BEVs.
     
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  5. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I think the demand would be higher than FCEV.
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm trying to figure out 'how' and came up with:
    1. Oversized MG2 and power electronics - so the battery can be drawn down for short acceleration.
    2. Rear-wheel motors - in Japan, 18 hp, could be increased and traction at the rear can avoid over loading the front drive wheels and tires.
    Bob Wilson
     
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  7. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    Rumor has it that Lexus will introduce the UX, based on the C-HR, at the Tokyo Auto Show in November as a 2019 model to arrive about a year from now. A more powerful, and more expensive, hybrid might fit in to their line up. Presumably it would fit expectations of Lexus buyers more than the ct200h which is being discontinued in the U.S.

    Here is a link about the introduction (but it doesn't talk about a hybird version): 2018 Lexus UX and seven-seat RX to be unveiled in November – reports
     
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  8. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    There was some complaints from the press, that the gearing is a lot lower and that engine works a lot more with high revs in C-HR compared to the Gen 4 Prius or even Auris (Gen 3 internals).

    They do state that efficiency and fuel economy won't be top priority, so they could do something about engine and just rob it of that 40% efficiency and give it 10 more ponies, just a small chip tuning will do. I don't believe they will change hardware much, they will just tune up every component just a little bit.
     
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  9. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    If the 2005 & 2007 Honda Accord Hybrid is any indication, there is no demand for mass market high powered hybrid powertrains in the US. Although 10 years is a long time so maybe things have changed. It's certainly not for me. If want high power, I get a V6. If I want fuel economy, I get a hybrid. If I want both fuel economy and power, then I get a turbo 4.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That Accord was the first power hybrid on the market. A time when the only people looking at hybrids were the ones that wanted to save gas. Honda does have a power hybrid system today. It is their dual clutch system mated to a six cylinder with two rear motors for AWD. It is available in one or two Acuras in the US.
     
  11. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    It also isn't necessarily a higher power version of the same engine - it could be larger displacement.

    And, I'm seeing this as a measure for when hybrids and EVs are mandated, there'll still be high performance options.

    Note that some reviewers have said that the Gen 4 Prius could handle another 100 hp, and that's on the relatively soft suspension of a Four Touring. A Gen 4 with the A25A-FXS and P710 out of the 2018 Camry could actually have some serious straight line performance (and still have good efficiency, based on the Camry LE Hybrid numbers), and with a stiffened up suspension, could have the handling to match. And, the P710's software has fake gear shifts available for those that hate CVTs.
     
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  12. Just.Drive.It.

    Just.Drive.It. New Member

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    I'll take the Power! Live a little, and have some fun. :LOL: You'll still get over 40 mpg. I don't want to be an old coot who just parks their hybrid in the driveway, hardly drives it, and lives on Prius Chat! :ROFLMAO: :eek:

    There is more to life! Get out, and just drive it!
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Try a BMW i3-REx.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota could simply apply the wide range valve control so the hybrid's Atkinsonized engine can go full Otto.
     
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  15. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    All of the reviews I've read (Motor Trend, Car and Driver, etc.) about the C-HR indicate that it is somewhat to extremely underpowered, so any improvement engine-wise, hybrid or otherwise, will up the ante to compete with other compact CUV's (or whatever the marketeers are calling them nowadays.)
     
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  16. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Note that that's mostly by American standards - the European ones are actually far slower (they get a choice between a 1.2T with 115 hp, and the Gen 4 powertrain), but something taking over 10 seconds to get to 60 is perfectly normal there.
     
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  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Minor technical issue, the compression stroke ratio would be in the range requiring very high octane fuel.

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    The "problem" with current engine is low end torque, that is where you would encounter serious knock issue if you would directly change valve timing to otto.

    I think it's not that much about 0-60 but the feeling what the car is doing, under light load Toyota hybrid excels, but under moderate load (>35kW) the engine sound with reeving at 3,000 rpm doesn't give that much confidence, like the small turbo engines does. The 1.2t option in C-HR will have 2,200 rpm wheres hybrid will be screaming at 3,500 rpm, for the same power.

    That IMO is the main concern that I get from people driving downsized turbo or petrol engine with less horsepower than Prius. IMO they will just "detune" Atkinson cycle a bit and get that ~180 Nm low end torque (electric motors won't mind that) and a little more power at the high end just enough for the electric motors to handle it.

    My wish is that they would just throw in a 4 kWh li-ion battery and up the electric power to 40 kW from the battery, oh yeah, when you are at it, don't forget the plug :D. Subsidies for PHEVs in Europe would cover the additional cost of that hardware, IMO it would sell like hot cakes.
     
  19. offib

    offib Member

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    They already do. Lots of people bought it for their concept looking wow factor. There's already 3 on my road, all hybrids.


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  20. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Toyota has already implemented the obvious solution to this in the 2018 Camry hybrid hsd. Engine cooling with direct injection allows higher compression stroke. Probably upping the size to 2L would also help, which would get you to 130 hp based on 2018 camry hybrid 2.5L but with 14:1 instead of 13:1 compression. If toyota goes full skyactiv (implementing variable valve lift and redesigning the piston) you could get 140 hp from the 1.8 - and go from 14:1 with premium, 13:1 with american regular - down to 6:1 in atkinson valve timing and port injection.

    yep one of the problems.
    I think part of the trick is better sound isolation and di ;-) IMHO biggest problem is accelerating when over 25 mph.

    Even the camry LE hybrid's 1kwh battery would help.