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2.9V Diff between 12V in aft compartment and engine room

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Pinback, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Couldn't disagree with you more. Used grease on every electrical connection in this car and every other car I have owned in the last 45 years. Keeps the water out and prevents corrosion. On my Prius I have gone back in and looked at them and 10 years later they look brand new. I use Redline wheel bearing grease 100% synthetic.Or PB CSP spray. That stuff is great.
     
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Isn't dielectric grease better for such applications?
     
  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    100% synthetic grease is dielectric.
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I'd like to hear comment from electrical engineers on this. I've always erred on the side of caution (at least I think it is): whenever the clamps are off the posts I'll brush both the posts and the clamps insides till they're bright, reassemble dry.

    Take something like the hybrid battery bus bars, they're dry assembled are they not. They often ended up green though.

    Yeah, any engineers?
     
  5. Pinback

    Pinback Member

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    I have cleaned ground connections at both ends of the negative cable in the aft compartment; 500grit than 1000 grit also used Deoxit S5 on both terminals of the 12V battery. Cleaned the positive terminal too the same way, and yes the posts too. Everything looks clean and solid back there. Once you are past positive terminal connector are there any other connections in that cable till you get to the jump point in the engine room or is that one continuous cable?

    As to the discussion on greasing electrical connections/automotive sockets, I think the idea of a light dielectric grease is probably a good idea where the connections can "bite" into each other pushing the grease out of the way at point of contact but allowing the grease to remain around the connection to keep moisture and the associated corrosion out. These tend to be lower current applications, up to a few amps. On battery terminals I think you want clean surfaces with lots of contact area so no grease IN the connector initially. But once you have a physically solid connection you could apply grease around the outside of the connector/post assembly and form a nice seal which is probably great. A more durable solution but, possibly harder to apply, would be "liquid electrical tape." Liquid tape drives solid but flexible and so would also not have dirt and dust get stuck in it like gooey grease would. I have used Liquid Tape on boats which are generally in a much harsher environment than autos, unless you try and drive under water. :) It is annoying to have to clean that stuff off when maintenance is needed but that is true of grease too. With the Prius, the battery is so well protected I think this is not too much of an issue.

    Now, on outer perimeter lighting connections, I think the grease idea is great because those areas are much more subject to moisture intrusion. And once in the housing, the moisture may hang around through many heat/cool cycles which really causes problems. The grease can offer valuable protection in this case. The grease may add some parasitic resistance between the socket and the bulb pins but I think this is outweighed by the protective properties. Then again I am thinking of traditional marker and mast lights and automotive turn signals, brake lights etc. These new newfangled halogen head lamps might suffer from that parasitic resistance and build up too much unwanted heat at the point of connection causing the grease to liquefy and migrate out from where you want it (or maybe worse). That would be a bummer. I 'll have to study the Prius headlamp connections before I say whether I think grease should be applied there. I'll do that this weekend since I will be doing a bunch of other stuff on the Darkstar.

    This is off topic but I have been meaning to ask, is it just me or do the backup lights on the Gen2 Prius seem "not very effective?" (this is a family show)

    Pinback
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Toyota never seems to apply grease to anything. Not sure what this would signify though.
     
  7. Pinback

    Pinback Member

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    It probably means Toyota figures it is not REALLY needed. DIY maintainers tend to "go the extra mile" when doing a job because they don't usually want to do more often than would be absolutely needed* and want to do it better than "some guy at a shop who does not love my car the way I do." Toyota does seem to use connectors with better splash ratings than other manufacturers and I have not _yet_ found one that seemed to be under rated for the current it carries.

    It also might just be that the more modern automotive and industrial connetors are better as resisting moisture than those connectors on cars from the 50'-80's that many of us older gas bags (Olde Farts) grew up learning to maintain. And old habits that proved beneficial die hard.

    *With a couple notable exceptions on this board. :)

    Pinback
     
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  8. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    Don’t put grease where high current would go through. Hybrid battery bus bars and 12V battery terminals have high current with large surface area where grease can cause problems. Grease, paint, or liquid electrical tape on top of connection will protect it from corrosion but won’t cause increased resistance.

    Most of connectors work with grease (dialectical grease) as they have strong enough pressure to make good connection even with grease being in there. And current in those is normally small enough that a slightest bit of added resistance won’t cause a problem.

    Some connectors like the once on some trailer lights you pretty much have to fill with grease to make them last.


    I don’t think that there’s connections between those points except the ones that you can see in the under hood fuse box. But even if it’s working now there is likely more than normal amount of voltage drop at the bad connection that caused the problem in the past. That’s how I found the problem on the ring terminal crimp on the battery negative cable.

    Just put some load on the circuit (I used headlights) and measure the voltage drops. I found that almost half of the drop was happening at the crimp that looked ok but was actually pretty lose and slightly corroded.

    Some Toyotas do seem to suffer from bad connection at the h4 bulb connector.
     
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  9. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    I assume that remark was directed toward me.

    You need to READ the specifics of what I said.
    Automotive connectors typically do not rely on flat surfaces to make the connection AND do not carry high current loads.

    Details are important. It is a fact that smooth, flat conducting surfaces SHOULD NOT have grease applied to the conducting surfaces.
    That includes the curved mostly smooth surfaces that make up a battery post and it's connections.

    You can disagree with that all you want but it does not change the facts.
     
  10. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    Well yes for the spaces AROUND the connection points.
    Di-electric grease is an insulator, by definition.
    Most all greases are mostly non-conductive.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I'm reluctant to put grease on battery connections, even just around the outside connection. If for example you need to disconnect 12 volt for brake work, take the clamp off, put it back on, chances are you're going to transfer grease, to where you don't want it. Plus, it's messy. I keep it dry/clean, never any problems. In past decades I'd gob it on, but now it seems pretty much pointless.