Aussie Needs Help Deciding! Model S or Prius?

Ahem.

I'm in Sydney. @davids45 is in Chatswood, too. (It's a suburb of Sydney.) He has a Prius C.

@Chris_007b , you seem to be looking at some wildly different cars from a price point of view. I'd look at my budget first, and once I know what I want to spend, then I'd have a think about what type of car.

In the meantime, it's worth thinking about the EV vs hybrid vs PHEV thing.

On EVs, your options are really very limited. There's the Tesla Model S and the Tesla Model X, and the Nissan Leaf. For a new Model S, you're looking at at least A$120,000 for a new one - and that's only a 75, so range is limited. For a used one, you're not going to get much change out of $100,000, and a used one is probably a bad idea because in Sydney most have been used as limo service cars, so they won't have been treated well.

For a new Model X, you'll be looking at close to A$200K. Used ones are very thin on the ground.

The new Nissan Leaf should be released here in the next few weeks if it hasn't been already, and you can get one of those for just under $50,000. Range might not be enough for you, though, if you're thinking of 120km a day. It'll do that in mild weather, but with aircon and traffic on a hot day, it might well not be enough.

For PHEVs, there's the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and the Volvo XC90 T8. The XC60 T8 should be coming out within a month or too as well. The XC90 is around A$100,000, and the XC60 should be closer to A$80,000. Both will give you the luxury of a Tesla, but will also give you build quality that is not American: I've heard a fair few complaints about bits falling off of Teslas, especially in Australia. The door handles don't seem to be able to handle our weather, and jam a lot.

The Mitsubishi is dull, but it's cheap, and it's big. You can get a used one for under $30K, or a new one for under $60K. You won't have a problem with range (you won't in the Volvos either).

Then there are the non-plug-in hybrids. At the upper end of the market, you've got the Panamera and the Cayenne, which cost about the same as a Tesla. There is a Merc C class available here, but I think it's only available as a sedan (it's available as a wagon elsewhere), and they don't sell the E-class hybrid here that's available in other markets. I can't remember whether the new C is plug-in or not.

There's the Prius. They're good. I am an ex-owner - I have a diesel Merc now because I go to Canberra a lot.

And the Hyundai Ioniq, as @alanclarkeau said, about to come out, definitely as a hybrid, and possibly as a PHEV and pure EV (all are available in other markets, but I'm not sure what they're doing here).

In terms of EV and PHEV charging.....

AGL has a deal which allows you to register your electric car and have charging capped at A$1 a day. Until you get solar, that seems like a very good deal.

In response to @Zythryn , our electricity isn't clean, but it's getting better, in spite of government efforts to SUBSIDISE COAL at the expense of renewals. No, really. The extension to the Snowy Hydro scheme should really improve the carbon footprint of our electricity.

(Electricity in Victoria is filthy.)

It's important to understand how and where you drive. A lot of Australians think hybrids and EVs are not for them because Australia is, like, really big. Most Australians live in big cities and almost never drive anywhere else. They just don't want to admit that. Australia is actually one of the markets that would be best-suited to EVs, but people's insistence that we are all still rough outback sheep farmers at heart when we actually all live in overcrowded cities is holding us back.

If your long-distance driving is along the Hume, it's worth knowing that there are Tesla supercharger points and ordinary EV charging stations at the Sutton Forest services, in the car park of Macca's. It's pretty much exactly halfway from here to Canberra. There's a charging point at that weird little parking area just past Campbelltown that's got the caravan selling overpriced sausage rolls, too. And I think there's one near the Big Merino in Goulburn. So driving to Canberra in a decent EV isn't going to create problems with range.

In the city, I think there's a charging station at the Cinema Centre car park on Sussex Street on the edge of Chinatown. And I've got a vague memory of seeing one in The Rocks somewhere. Westfield Parramatta does too.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks @hkmb.

Yes, the Merc C350e is a Plug-In, as is the AUDI e-TRON and BMW 330e - priced between $55 and $75k from memory - I considered them 19 months ago, but decided on PRIUS instead.

There is also the BMW i3, an EV which is available also with a "Range Extender" - a small petrol generator on board, but restricted by only a 3litre fuel tank. The BMW i3 won the WHEELS Car of the Year a few years ago, so they must have been impressed. It looks small, but is surprisingly spacious inside.

 

Ahha. Thanks for that. I like your avatar picture, by the way. Very stylish.

I see a lot of i3s in China, and a few in Singapore, but hardly any here. I don't think I've seen more than two or three in Sydney since they were launched. I think that's why I forgot about them.

And I've never seen an e-tron in Sydney. Unless you count the Québécois definition - there are a few of them in the park. (With thanks to @Tideland Prius )

 

The avatar was my 3rd car (not actual car, but identical, a VOLVO 164E) - I was only 24yo, odd car for my age group, most of whom had hotted up Datsuns or Falcons. But a great car, most powerful I've ever owned, and the first (best maybe) of 3 VOLVOs. I got bored with a PRIUS as an avatar.

I wonder if the 3 i3s are the same 3 I see here. Not common, but a panel beater nearby owns one which he loves.

I have only seen a few e-trons here too. Hard to tell with the BMW and MERC, as they look the same as the non-PHEV versions unless you're close.

What model Merc Diesel have you?

 

Ah. It's a lovely car: I do like old Volvos. (And new ones. Just not so much the ones in between.) That would have been a very cool car to have in order to stand out from the Falcons.

I doubt they're the same i3s: driving one all the way between here and Brissie would be a painful experience. And none of the ones I've seen have been on out-of-state plates.

You definitely have to get close to the BMWs and Mercs to tell whether they're hybrids. I did see a 330e in a traffic jam the other day.

I've got a C220 wagon. It's very comfortable, and has a spectacular stereo, and it's great on the drive to Canberra. And there's loads of room in the boot: I've taken a large, heavy sideboard and a big Persian rug to Canberra (my wife had sold them on Gumtree, and I was going there for a meeting) and still got 5.2l per 100km on that run. It's not so economical around town, though.

 

@bwilson4web our resident measurement guru has a BMW i3 with the range extender. I will let him comment further about it.

 

We have two plug-in hybrids because we want our cars to handle both local commutes as well as the occasional, cross country. My experience:

• Prius Prime Plus in my hands | PriusChat
  
• Why the BMW i3-REx | PriusChat

Now I understand the Aussi market is limited. You might also have access to the Chevy Volt (I understand is under another name.) My impressions:

1. BMW i3-REx - excellent car after the first model year, 2014. Not quite as reliable as our Toyota, it gives the driver a lot of control over EV, 116 km, or range extended gas, +128 km. The more recent versions have greater range but new, they are expensive. Leasing makes them affordable or better still, get one at end of lease.
2. Prius Prime - Toyota reliability and performance are great but the EV range, 40 km, may seem low but charging is flexible and the gas engine, totally awesome. My understanding is Toyota is not selling them in Australia, yet.
3. Regular Prius - sad to say, no practical EV, after market options. Since we're seeing a growth in the number of plug-in models, a used one for 2-3 years wouldn't cost much yet buy time for the Australian market to improve. There may be 'gray market' Prius from Japan (and learn a new language.)

The wild card is China that wants to get in the international car market. But they are new at it so a lot of infantile problems would be expected.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

Thank you, Bob.
The i3-REX is the i3 with the range extender.
The Prius Prime would be the Prius PHV if Toyota would offer it in Australia but they have chosen not to offer it.

 

Thanks - I didn't realise there were reliability issues with i3 - is it the EV or the RE part?

Sadly, PRIUS Prime never made it here, TOYOTA thought the market too small (which of course it will be if there are no cars available).

The Chevy VOLT was the HOLDEN VOLT here - but we only got them for about 2011 to 2013 - they had a $60,000+ price tag, and most just sat in dealerships - Mercedes C Class money for a humble Holden. I've spoken to a couple of people who had/have them and they reckon they're great cars, but no longer available.

I have forgotten China - it's certainly coming, but I don't think this year or even next.

 

IIRC, the RE had a broken engine mount that heeded to be ordered from Germany.
Here is Bob's thread on his i3-REx.

Why the BMW i3-REx | PriusChat

 

I had a motor mount bolt fail probably because I was taking speed bumps too fast on just one side. The replacement assembly was a substantially improved part. Other nuisance things like a slow gas flap release and absence of engine oil pressure gauge. I'm also not happy with the tire wear that appears to be excessive camber.

Bob Wilson

 

If there is serious interest in the BMW i3-REx, this is my Go To source:
BMW i3 Forum - Index page

Registration is free and it includes USA and EU members. There may even be a few Aussi members.

Bob Wilson