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clatter/shaking, CEL on, oil on 2 plugs & coils... diagnosis?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by sukatoro, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. sukatoro

    sukatoro Junior Member

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    hi all... was hoping some here could help me diagnose what is going on with my beloved 2010 (with 240k mileage); day before yesterday I drove it up to work, was running fine, left it parked for 8 hours, finished up and got in, started up only to hear the most raucous clatter and engine shaking I'd ever heard... it actually sounds just like the car in this video:




    popped hood and engine is shaking violently, rocking back and forth... oil level is normal right between the two pips on dipstick. hooked up my mini VCI and found codes p0300, p0302, p0304, nothing else... check engine light comes on, flashes some, then settles down to just staying on.

    so yesterday I pulled the cowling to start with changing plugs, when the coils came out I found this:

    IMG 20180202 162541 — imgbb.com

    coils 2 & 3 were coated with oil, & 4 were dry. the boots of coils 2 & 3 are soft compared to those of 1 & 4. I make it to the plugs and find both plugs 2 & 3 are almost what I'd call loose, takes no effort to free them and pull out, both covered with oil badly.

    I cleaned up the coils, changed plugs for fresh DENSO's, put back together and started up... engine sounds normal for 20 seconds then BANG BANG BANG, same clatter and shake as before. damn.

    so... what is my next move? i was planning on dedicating today to doing EGR and intake manifold, does this make sense? any input would be GREATLY appreciated, wish me luck and thanks in advance all..!
     
  2. tankyuong

    tankyuong Senior Member

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    sounds like dirty egr sytem is clogged and worst case scenario blown headgasket
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Stuck-shut PCV valve creating pressure in crankcase, forcing oil up past piston rings, and causing the whole thing to fight to rotate?

    Search for those codes. One thread:

    P0300 code and probable misfires | PriusChat
     
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  4. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    We’re you the one that replaced the plugs? If so, when was the last round of plug replacements? What torque was used?
     
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  5. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    Did you remove the new plugs to see what they look like?
    I am going to assume the new plugs filed shortly after start up causing the engine to jump around because it is now out of balance.
    If the above suggestions don't fix your problem I would do a leak down test on those two cylinders and my guess would be a blown head gasket. A simple compression test would be OK but I wouldn't know how to do one on a Prius because of it's unorthodox starting method.
    Maybe someone knows.


     
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  6. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

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    How is the engine coolant level?

    If plugs 2 and 3 were never tightened that would explain the oil as would valve cover gasket leaking into the plug wells. Any idea how much (if any) oil it burns? I'd assume at 240k miles it moves some oil.
     
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  7. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    I second the valve cover gasket leaking. Cleaning EGR and Intake manifold is necessary every 100k or less.

    Pixel XL ?
     
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  8. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

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    Yeah, I almost think the head gasket is a foregone conclusion on this one:(...
     
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  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I concur with those who noticed the oil in the plug wells above the plugs, wondering if the valve cover gasket could be leaking. That's a straightforward fix (relative to the other possibilities). I'd look into that (and maybe replacing the oil-soaked igniters?) and see how far that gets.

    +1 on the leakdown test. Or, if you have Techstream, you can do a conventional compression test (you just tell Techstream to crank the engine for you). But because the leakdown method is quieter and the engine isn't cranking, you can actually hear where the air is going if there is significant leakage. You might hear it whooshing into the crankcase, or bubbling out the radiator if the head gasket is bad. Or it could reassure you that things are ok, beyond the oil in the plug wells.

    -Chap
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The leaks into the spark plug well might be caused by excess pressure in the camshaft area? Due in turn to PCV valve not working??

    Still, those two oily plugs were nearly loose, maybe not torqued? Lots of variables.
     
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  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    A super-quick PCV test is to take hose-pinch pliers to the PCV hose while the engine is idling in inspection mode. If the valve is already plugged, this will have no effect.

    The engine controls can complicate the test (if the ECM says "hey, RPM changed" and makes adjustments to compensate). I'm not sure "inspection mode" by itself is enough to keep that from happening. ISTR that somewhere there was a Toyota description of doing such a test, and how to set a mode where the ECM doesn't step right in, so you can tell what happens. I can't find it at the moment, though.

    -Chap
     
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  12. sukatoro

    sukatoro Junior Member

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    wow, thanks to you all for the slew of replies and suggestions, been under he hood all day pulling the intake manifold and EGR pipe and the lower part under the valve... having some trouble getting the actual valve and cooler out but done for the day, no more light. so, here's what I've found so far...

    EGR pipe itself was clear, minor buildup.

    intake manifold filthy but the main passages were open, although the 4 tiny openings that are found at the mouth of each opening were totally sealed up, had to run zip ties down them along with break cleaner to clear the passages.

    pulled the new plugs, #2 and #3 came out soaked with oil, but only on the coil side if that makes sense... accompanying coils also slathered, again. (are these coils assumedly good after getting this wet with oil? the rubber boots on 2 and 3 are actually soft compared to 1 and 4...)

    I'm inclined to agree about the valve cover gasket, seems the most probable entry point for the oil, and at the moment the plan is to pick up replacement gasket kit tomorrow and get that sorted... I noticed a weird 'blob' of white looking stuff, kinda like chewing gum, poking through the valve cover at one point, some kind of silicon maybe? it's visible here...

    IMG 20180203 170535 — imgbb.com

    maybe a previous attempt at repair? don't know, have only had this car for the last 8 months...

    lastly, and I almost afraid to ask... but while I was looking at the engine compartment rear, I got a good look at where the engine meets the transaxle (I'm assuming?), and... I don't know if this looks right or not. it kinda looks... bent up to me? really don't know how it should look, so took some pictures... can any tell me if this looks dire by chance?

    IMG 20180203 184815 — imgbb.com
    IMG 20180203 184940 — imgbb.com

    I don't want to pour a lot of money into the engine only to find the transaxle is screwed too... if its toast I would most likely get rid of the car and pick up a 2nd-gen. I LOVE this car though, my first hybrid and would really like to get her rolling again soon.

    thank you all once again, you guys rock.
     
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  13. sukatoro

    sukatoro Junior Member

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    ps: the car hasn't lost any coolant, does consume some oil but not much, maybe a quart per 10k miles? honestly, for a car with this mileage its really been great up until now, it drove fine early on Thursday and when I got in to go home went totally haywire.
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Those are the "capillaries" from the EGR gallery, that runs across the intake manifold. Pretty much mandatory for EGR valve/cooler removal: watch @NutzAboutBolts video, pinned at top of 3rd gen maintenance sub-forum:

    Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

    At the beginning he references other videos (same location), some of which you've already done, but perhaps not the removal of the windshield wipers, motors, windshield cowl? This is pretty much a must for access.

    Also, you for sure need an E8 Torx socket, to remove studs, and a ratchetting (and swivelling is nice too) 12 mm box wrench is handy, for reaching the back nuts behind cooler.

    Brake cleaner will work for most everything, except the EGR cooler, where 5 or 6 hour long soaks in hot/saturated Oxi-Clean solution (plug one end, pour it in) are very effective.

    Here's one thread on the subject of EGR cleaning, lots of info:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

    I'll attach some Repair Manual excerpts:
     
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  15. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

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    Stable coolant level is good news but it's hard to not be concerned about the head gasket! It's possible the complete blockage of the intake manifold EGR ports is behind the misfires. Definitely proceed with the EGR valve and cooler, with the cooler being the main objective and biggest pain in the nice person to pull. Mendel's oxi soaks are indeed a way to clean the cooler to shiny new, but if pressed for time, emptying a few (or several if it's it's really plugged) cans of break cleaner through the cooler will do a plenty good enough job to achieve essentially complete flow. Since the car doesn't burn much, if any oil, the cooler may not be ridiculously plugged. I wouldn't think a little exterior oil "conditioning" would damage the coil packs internally, especially since you have a code for cylinder 4 but not 3. Who knows, though... If you decide to replace them, I'd recommend OEM Denso. Toyota's don't do well with aftermarket electrics, in my experience. I guess once the valve and cooler are clean, I'd be inclined to put it back together and see how it runs.

    I would guess your pic of the valve cover is just excess gasket silicone from assembly, but again, who knows.

    Pics of the exhaust manifold area aren't telling of anything to me. Transaxle is off to the driver side. I guess I'm not seeing what you're saying looks bent up. But really, the only codes the car is storing are engine misfire.
     
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  16. sukatoro

    sukatoro Junior Member

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    thanks friends, I have a gasket kit for the valve cover coming tomorrow and am going to attempt to knock all this out and be driving to work on Monday...

    and... forgot to mention, earlier when I pulled the MAF sensor out I found it literally dripping with wet oil, all over the little red diode. I did spray it down multiple times with MAF cleaning spray, anyone know what effect an oily MAF could be expected to produce?

    thx friends, priuschat is an invaluable resource..!
     
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  17. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    When the EGR system is cleaned thoroughly you'll see a boost in your fuel economy.

    Pixel XL ?
     
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  18. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

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    I don't really know for sure. But it sure seems like if enough airflow was restricted, the car would run rough as hell.

    I'd definitely pull the PCV valve, give it the shake test and blast it with Brakleen, too. Might be the original in there.
     
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  19. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    A dirty MAF generally produces low rough idle. One contaminated like yours, who knows.

    Make sure the ends of your coils are clean and show no sign of carbon tracking especially if they have oil on them. The spark needs to go to the plug and not to ground.
     
    #19 padroo, Feb 3, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    @sukatoro

    Where was the "MAF" sensor? Below the throttle body is the MAP sensor, mine was awash in oil/gunk when I investigated. I eventually sprayed it down with MAF cleaner, after using everything under the sun on it, it survived.

    They are not cheap, btw.
     
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