1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

USA Plays Let's Make A Deal On Cheating...

Discussion in 'Diesels' started by El Dobro, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    6,979
    3,214
    1
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,908
    49,488
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    looks similar to vdub's deal. difficult to compare one to the other, but the potential fines and ongoing criminal investigation sound just at this point anyway.
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    55,563
    38,726
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    This (VW and sundry) makes me think of auto racing regulations, where there are certain mods that are off-limits, considered cheating, but the stakes are high and there's an ongoing cat-and-mouse game at play. Or the Olympics...
     
    scona likes this.
  4. soldierguy

    soldierguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    107
    243
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    There's a gray, fuzzy line in there somewhere, between a cheat like VW did, and knowingly letting the engine emit more pollutants at heavy/full throttle in order to not damage anything. I'd imagine that more manufacturers are taking a look at where that line is in their own products.
     
    Prodigyplace likes this.
  5. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,396
    1,489
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    In European law, that line is actually between those.

    In US law, automakers are required to disclose when they're doing that, and get approval from the EPA beforehand - without doing that, it's treated as equivalent to what VW did. What's at issue is the fact that FCA did not do that.
     
  6. I'mJp

    I'mJp Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    628
    552
    0
    Location:
    Ma, USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    Three
    Wow

    There is such a thing as "undisclosed auxiliary emission control devices (AECDs)"

    Used for emergency vehicles.

    I remember in the 80's designing in a "battle short" in military avionics, and thought it strange.
    A switch that bypasses all fuses and circuit breakers.
    I guess if your plane is going down, and are about to die, you don't want it to be because of a fuse..
     
    scona likes this.
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,120
    11,560
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    And tank crews remove the speed governors when getting deployed where actual combat might happen.

    I don't know what exactly this AECD for emergency vehicles is, but many regions are letting these vehicles disable the limp home function in the event of being out of DEF. An ambulance or fire truck that can only do 40mph at most aren't going to be of much help.
     
  8. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,396
    1,489
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    So, undisclosed AECDs are defeat devices, end of story. (An AECD is simply anything that changes the emissions strategy, all of which must be disclosed to and approved by the EPA by law.)

    There are some types of AECDs that the EPA would never approve for a normal vehicle, but will approve for emergency vehicles - largely ones to override limp home modes and forced shutdowns for emissions system failures - due to the risk to human life from the normal behavior.