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Reverse polarity jump / Fried inverter / 2008 Prius

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Michael Sweeney, Mar 26, 2018.

  1. Michael Sweeney

    Michael Sweeney New Member

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    I own a 2008 prius. My auxiliary (12v) battery was going bad and I had to jump start my car. The friendly stranger helping me, put the cables on the wrong poles on his battery, and reverse polarity jumped my prius. All electrical systems down.
    I towed it to the Toyota dealer (big mistake) and they started to take a look. Initially it is $150 for the inspection and first diagnostic. They found that obviously my main fuse was blown, along with two small fuses (rear lights and something else small).
    This repair was $600, but they could not see if any further damage had been done without replacing these three fuses for $600. So I said ok (big mistake) and they replaced the fuses for a ridiculous $600. THEN they said they needed to do a second diagnostic, to see if the inverter was fried (the part that converts power between the 12v auxiliary battery and the High Voltage hybrid battery) and this diagnostic would be another $300.
    After sensing a bad feeling, I told them to stop everything. After researching, I found that the inverter is going to be fried if you jump your prius with the polarity reversed, and the main fuse sometimes prevents this but generally only in a certain setting like shorting the battery in another way. But if you hook the cables up backwards and see sparks from the donor’s car, you’ve fried your inverter (especially if you see or smell any smoke, or any melted anything).
    After calling Toyota back and asking if they could tell me if they thought the inverter was fried, they of course said they could not tell me without the second diagnostic to “open up” the inverter and look inside (as if they couldn’t see damage to it from just looking at the outside) and this like I said earlier would be $300. Making it a total of $900 to replace 3 fuses and tell me the inverter is fried. To replace an inverter in a prius at any dealership is $4,000 they also said, and that I can only have it done at a dealership. After already spending $600 for three fuses, I declined their advice, and got my prius the **** out.
    I purchased a used good condition inverter off a parts website with a 1 year warranty for $170 and had a local mechanic install it for $550 out the door. BUT he also replaced my water pump for only an additional $200, something the dealership quotes as an $800 job (just to replace the water pump).
    So instead of paying $4,900 to replace the inverter, and three fuses, I payed $750 to replace the inverter and the water pump. And the $600 to Toyota for three fuses and what should be a 30 second visual diagnostic on the fried inverter. This is something my new mechanic said he would have done for free, and only charged $60 for the parts cost of the three fuses.
    Other than all of that, the people at Toyota are very professional and have very good customer service so it’s VERY VERY easy to accept what they say and take the advice they give. ONLY take free advice, and try to understand exactly what is happening and what is wrong or broken on your car so that you can research on your own, and decide if you can find a cheaper way. I think I got partly lucky (pun intended) that I found a guy to put in my used brought in part (inverter) because most places will say they don’t do that. But just keep looking until you find someone who will just do the job because it’s an easy $500 to charge for the labor (he charged two hours to take out the old inverter and another two to intall the one I brought). And compared to $4,000 that is a nice deal. Just make sure you are buying the right parts (part numbers, same year same model vehicle, etc.) and are certain that they are the issue that is occuring with your vehicle.
     
    #1 Michael Sweeney, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  2. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Welcome to PC! Can u please use the edit function and make some paragraphs. A huge block of text gets very difficult to read.
     
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  3. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    What mechanic in the greater Sacramento area were you able to use?
     
  4. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    Oh dear! :eek:
    Welcome to PriusChat, and it's a shame your very first post had to be the one which just about every and each post about jump-starting Prii contains a strong warning about the dire (and expensive :eek:) consequences of getting the leads reversed! …but you're in great company, and many of us are thinking "…there but for the grace of God (…or whatever Invisible Friend you worship) go I!" …so I guess you might say you've proved the point!
    Welcome again, but be warned, PriusChat can be addictive! …but you will learn all you'll ever need to know about getting the very best out of your amazing Prius! ;)
     
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  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    We may finally get to a point where PriusChat front page is demonic flames and message

    If you jump-start your car and get the clips reversed, very expensive damage. For all other Prius matters, click (some other screen point).

    Gotta wonder if this oft-repeated story is preventable. Toyota is a make-a-buck car company not so different from others. Is there a lose-a-buck modification that could prevent this error from DESTROYING TOYOTA'S hard-won genial relationship with new Prius buyers?

    We have been doing Prius for almost two decades now, if you stretch beginnings very much. Because it looks like other cars, if it won't GO, clipping on to 12 volt battery seems appropriate.

    Do that thing wrong once ever and you join sad posters such as here. I insult Toyota by saying spend a buck and end this rookie-fail.

    Really it is not a PriusChat problem. Not assuaged by owners' manual that all get but few read. If you buy Prius and your selling staff did not warn about 'jumping', they and their bosses have poorly performed.

    Perhaps it would cost more than a buck to armor Prius against wrong-way jumping. $20? $200? You tell me.

    For as long as PriusChat existed, this has been a topic. Still not resolved.
     
  6. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    I still think it’s entirely users fault for jumping it the wrong way. It’s the same way with all the cars (reverce polarity can cause damage). Most of modern cars get just as damaged as a Prius from reverse polarity. Many 12V accessories get damaged if connected to reverse polarity etc.

    And if you’re really worried that you would connect it backwards you can get cables or jump start pack that protect against it.

    Of course all it would need is a diode in series with jump start terminal. Maybe one or two dollars. But that would reduce the usability. You couldn’t use that to measure battery voltage or provide power to something. So then they would have to have another point for that use. And then that might be used for jump starting.

    What should Toyota warn against? Everybody knows (or at least should know) that you shouldn’t jump the wrong way. OP (and others) already started by telling that it was jumped the wrong way. That tells that people know not to jump it the wrong way. So dealership telling people “don’t jump it the wrong way” wouldn’t help anything.
     
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  7. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Sorry for your experiences. Butbis it that some of these dealerships just pretend not to know what they're doing, or what? Just to troubleshot an inverter failure, you got to pay such an amount? Oooooh, I got it now. Your wallet is the target.

    Please Gus, isn't there away, one could insert a diode(maybe the 4004 type, etc) and a fuse inline the positive feed of the inverter to prevent cases like these? I have seen such preventive measures on such intelligent battery chargers.
     
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  8. Michael Sweeney

    Michael Sweeney New Member

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    It is very sad and very ridiculous that Toyota has made this problem even possible, almost criminal seeming. Not to mention the price the dealerships charge for fixing this problem once it’s happened. But the fact that there is nothing preventing this problem is not an accident. It’s a money grab, and I’m sure it’s made Toyota so much money it makes me sick.

    Speaking to a few of your points however, I believe it is very much a priuschat problem because I came here, when I felt a very bad deal offered/given to me by Toyota, and it helped me figure out what happened and what was actually damaged, without paying $300 for the Toyota diagnosis. Furthermore, after learning here what an inverter is (converts energy between the High Voltage hybrid battery and the 12v auxiliary battery), I also learned it is what gets fried from a reverse polarity jump start. That and a few fuses. Priuschat saved me that $300 diagnosis and subsequently about $4,000 for the entire fix, once I confirmed the inverter part number, bought my own used one with a warranty, and found an independent mechanic to perform the replacement. Also, I believe this is as good a solution to this problem as we’re gonna get. Hope this helps someone like the other posts about this on here helped me.
     
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  9. Michael Sweeney

    Michael Sweeney New Member

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    Lots of people accidentally hook the cables up wrong, or don’t even know how to jumpstart a car. Don’t shame these people, they need help. In my case, the donor’s battery was so coroded that he couldn’t see which terminal was positive or negative, and like an idiot, he just attached and boom, sparks. That quick, and I had a $4,000 plus fix. I managed to get it done for under $1,000, and that’s what this post is about.
     
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  10. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    Yes I know that many people would need help and I’m not trying to shame them. But if they don’t read the manual (like tochatihu told in the post that I replied to), how could you instruct them?
     
  11. Michael Sweeney

    Michael Sweeney New Member

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    By posting here.
     
  12. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    But tochatihu was saying that dealer should have warned:

    And to that I replied that it just doesn’t really make sense to tell “don’t connect the jump cables way” as everybody already knows it. Or at least they should.

    And posting here about it has problems. Firstly everybody knows not to connect them wrong. Or at least they should. And secondly if they come here after they have already connected the cables backwards then it’s no help. Thirdly nobody connects the cables wrong on purpose so why would telling that you shouldn’t connect them wrong help?
     
  13. Michael Sweeney

    Michael Sweeney New Member

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    I just explained how the donor’s battery had such corrosion that he couldn’t see the terminal markers and he accidentally connected the cables backwards. There are plenty of posts about this happening, and I am not telling people to connect their jumper cables correctly. I’m explaining the $4,000 that I saved after having this happen by doing everything that I wrote about in my OP and avoiding a dealership fix. So you’re out of line, stfu, and let this story help someone else, who might have unfortunately had this happen, from spending $4,000 when they might not need to.
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It's piss-poor, cavalier engineering, that a lapse like this would fry so much. There should be more safeguards, fuses, whatever it takes.
     
  15. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    I think we are just talking about different things here. I was just replying to tochatihu why it’s hard to stop people putting the cables backwards and causing damage. And you just telling what happened to you and how to save some money if that happens to you.
     
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  16. Michael Sweeney

    Michael Sweeney New Member

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    By the way everyone,
    Yes.

    And I agree it’s near impossible to prevent accidents like this. Anyone SHOULD know how to jumpstart a car properly as well as know the consequences for hooking the cables up wrong for their particular car, BUT there’s not much you can do when it happens as an accident or because of an inexperienced donor/person is hooking up the cables. I’m just trying to help people save money on the repair in a worst case scenario where it fries the inverter. Dealership quotes it +$4,200. A good condition used inverter assembly is roughly $350.
     
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  17. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    If a vehicle might need a one or two jump starts should we design it based on the idea that the person connecting the cables can’t be trusted to connect them correctly?

    Instructions on how to use the cables are provided with the car. Starting cables themselves are dangerous if used wrong. User could cause fire or burn themselves regardless of a design of the car. We do allow the same person to drive for hours where a moment of lapse could get them or somebody else killed so compared to that potential damage to inverter is minimal.
     
    #17 valde3, Mar 27, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Sure, why not, if it's practical and the cost is not through the roof. Some heavy-duty fuse that'll fail first, instead of a 4 grand inverter. Yes.
     
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  19. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I doubt that a fuse would work because the solid state devices in the inverter will almost certainly fail before the fuse blows. If you use a fuse that's low enough in amperage to protect the inverter, it will probably blow as soon as you connect to the donor battery.

    Someone above mentioned a diode arrangement and that might be a solution. But even if I had a diode or something like that, I think I would make sure the cables were connected the right way. You don't need terminal markers. Just look for the cable that goes to the frame on the donor car. If you're still in doubt, connect the black clamp to that battery terminal and tap the other end of it on a bare spot on the frame of the donor car.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah, that was the "if"... :(
     
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