Japan Industrial Standard (JIS) screw drivers

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Mendel Leisk, Apr 5, 2018.

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  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    General import automotive info: Honda brake rotors in particular uses these screws. Cross-head, but somewhat different than the North American Phillips head:

     
    #1 Mendel Leisk, Apr 5, 2018
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  2. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

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    ...and once you manage to get the darn things off, straight to the scrap metal bin with them!
     
    #2 m.wynn, Apr 8, 2018
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    Yeah I was kinda wondering: Toyota lets rotors float, say once the lug nuts and rim are removed, if they're not rust glued. Torque for the screws is 7 foot pounds (for 2010 Pilot); maybe just reinstall them snugged.
     
    #3 Mendel Leisk, Apr 8, 2018
  4. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Some cars I've owned had the screws, some had push on nuts. When I have to remove the rotors, those things get tossed. They're probably just on there for assembly line use, so once the wheels are on, the rotors aren't going anywhere.
     
    #4 El Dobro, Apr 8, 2018
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    Here's the little beauties, rear brakes of a 2010 Pilot in my case, and rotor removal is required to check on the integrated drum-style parking brake. Items A are the the screws, and E are temporary bolts as required for breaking the rotor loose from hub (the usual).

    upload_2018-4-8_6-45-6.png

    I lucked out, many to cadge a pdf of the Shop Manual, which appears to be a scan of the paper manual. Just images, but just as handy as flipping through the paper manual, and easier to print.
     
    #5 Mendel Leisk, Apr 8, 2018
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    I have my JIS #3 screwdriver on order, coming via slow-boat from Japan, I'll be reinstalling those screws, with LockTite, lol.

    Search string:

    Vessel 125943 908 P3x150 Impacta Screwdriver

    There's P1, P2 and P3 sizes, P3 the largest, the one required for the rotors, according to the video. I see there's also a multi-bit screwdriver, with all 3 sizes, I might look into that after. Supposedly all cross-head screws on Japanese cars are these, even the small ones.
     
    #6 Mendel Leisk, Apr 9, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    New toy I acquired, a graduated oil pitcher, Dynaline C3046, 4.5 liter capacity (4.75 US Quarts). Thick material, made in Canada, worked well, the cap/spout did not leak a drop.

    IMG_8515.JPG

    The gradations are a little "coarse", every 1/2 liter. I've added some bits of masking tape marked in 1/10's, for now. Might lightly mark them with an engraving pen.
     
    #7 Mendel Leisk, Apr 16, 2018
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  8. zen_

    zen_ Junior Member

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    I'm almost embarrassed to state truthfully how long it took me to get the rotor screws out of my 02' CR-V. I broke two bits off an impact screwdriver in the rears, which made drilling impossible, then had to use the hammer + chisel at an angle technique to finally get the things out. I have nothing against Honda, the truck made it past 250K with decent resale value despite me using it in severe service, but little things like that drove me insane doing basic DIY stuff.
     
    #8 zen_, Apr 17, 2018
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  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Was that the kind of hand impact driver where you hold it in place with one hand and use the other to bang it on the end with a hammer?

    I've had one of those since forever, and it's great for stuck screws, with its key virtue being that it never puts torque on the screw head except when it's also putting strong downward force on it.

    I did, however, pick up a more recent, cheap, offshore one at an Ace Hardware a while back (I was visiting someone, and didn't have mine), and in the course of loosening some stuck hinge screws in a steelclad front entry door, shattered the bits that came with it.

    I found out you can order the same style, 5/16" hex shank, replacement bits from MSC Industrial, and those make a great upgrade for a cheap offshore driver. I've never shattered one of those. :)

    Lisle and Thexton both make interesting versions where you let an air hammer do the banging, while you gently supply the torque with a wrench or side handle.

    -Chap
     
    #9 ChapmanF, Apr 17, 2018
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  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    According to the guy in the video, the key is to use an impact driver with the correct (JIS) bit. Mine has shipped, ETA, "sometime" in May.
     
    #10 Mendel Leisk, Apr 17, 2018
  11. zen_

    zen_ Junior Member

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    I used the Harbor Freight impact screwdriver with DeWalt bits if I recall. It was annoying because the previous owner had a service record of the rotors being resurfaced at a Honda dealership, yet they re-installed the rotor screws (unnecessary), and didn't bother to put anti-seize on the screws on top of that.
     
    #11 zen_, Apr 17, 2018
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    Sometimes rotors are refinished without being removed. I wouldn't assume they'd been removed. The Harbor Freight impact driver had Phillips bits I'd assume?
     
    #12 Mendel Leisk, Apr 17, 2018
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Toyota actually recommends the on-car brake lathes over taking the rotors off for resurfacing. With the on-car lathe, there's no doubt of getting the rotor surfaces exactly normal to the bearing axis.

    -Chap
     
    #13 ChapmanF, Apr 17, 2018
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    Vessel P3x150 Impacta Screwdriver

    arrived a couple of days back, well ahead of ETA, and no shipping charges. Mainly for Honda rotors, and I see it's a fit on the Prius license plate bolts. It's oversized though, for EGR valve screws, accordingly I've ordered:

    Vessel P2x150 Impacta Screwdriver
     
    #14 Mendel Leisk, Apr 22, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    The #2 screwdriver arrived, the size for the screws on the EGR valve cap. I soaked the screws with solvent, warmed the valve with a heat gun, and tried to break them loose, first tapping with a carpenter's hammer, next with a loose splitter ax head (just the head, no handle).

    I at least didn't mangle the heads, but they were not budging: screws one, mendel zero :(

    Maybe lok-tite on the threads??

    Maybe let sleeping dogs lay, it is kinda pointless. But it bugs me.
     
    #15 Mendel Leisk, May 16, 2018
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I guess I'm not seeing the appeal of a set of screwdrivers with an impact-driver cam built into the handle of each one, compared to a set of 5/16" drive JIS bits to fit in the generic hand impact driver that you probably already have, and which is probably sturdier with more handle mass than the built-into-screwdriver-handle thing anyway. (With one of these things, it's your hammer that delivers the downward impulse, but it's the inertial mass of the handle that delivers the twist; it ain't your bionic hand grip.)

    And did I read somewhere that the Impacta handle is permanently set for a leftward impulse? Pretty much every generic hand impact driver will deliver left or right (all just depends on which way you're twisting the handle before you bang it). Not that you'd ever want to use impact to drive something in, but what if someday you run into something left-threaded that you want to take out?

    -Chap
     
    #16 ChapmanF, May 16, 2018
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    The flip side: these are nice/solid screwdrivers, a lot of times that's all you want.
     
    #17 Mendel Leisk, May 16, 2018
  18. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    Good thing I drive a Prius! An 'Murican car.
     
    #18 William Redoubt, May 16, 2018
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Got some canned air for dusting computers around? Holding it upside down, you can spray liquid propellant directly onto the screws to try breaking the seize by freezing
     
    #19 Trollbait, May 17, 2018
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    Similarly, I was thinking about holding the flat of a soldering iron against the valve flange, maybe expanding that enough to accomplish similar loosening.

    I'm pretty sure I'm going to do a fox-and-the-grapes on this. I've had the valve off the car, with the cooler, managed it to clean it, without disassemble. It's mainly just frustration.

    If I HAD to get in there, I might resort to drilling out the center of the screw (per the video at top). Then procure some replacement screws. I believe M5 x 20 panhead would be what's needed. And if they were hard to come by, a smaller diameter machine screw with nut and washers could be used in the interim.

    But I totally don't need to remove it, think I'll just try to convince myself they're pop rivets for now; that it's a permanent assembly.

    @Raytheeagle got them off though...
     
    #20 Mendel Leisk, May 17, 2018
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