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HELP Is my engine messed up?! Oil dry

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Lex G, May 17, 2018.

  1. Lex G

    Lex G Junior Member

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    I'm learning quite a bit this week.
    Thanks to this forum I learned I should have replaced the spark plugs at 120k miles, and other technical terms.
    Thanks to google, I learned that I should be checking other things on my car, and doing inspections every so often.
     
    bisco likes this.
  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    You're doing better than 90% of car owners out there....
    Knowing what you do not know also places you ahead of the pack.
    Short answer:
    Delete Automatic Transmission, and stick with the maintenance recommendations with 'transaxle.'

    Longer answer:

    Your Prius has a transaxle.......-ish rather than an automatic transmission.
    Some people will also refer to it as a CVT - or Continuously Variable Transmission (no gears) which is functionally correct (ish) but does not account for the electrical windings for the Motor/Generators.
    Toyota calls this unit a Power Split Device.
    It sounds horribly complicated, but it's not, really.
    There's fluid inside that lubricates everything - but the [sic] transaxle is a sealed unit, and there's no combustion and little contact with air, dirt and moisture.....so there's not much that can contaminate the fluid.
    It does get very warm however, and over time the fluid can break down.
    Some people also advise that the fluid be replaced just after break-in, which in your car has long ago passed.
    So.....the [sic] ATF needs to be checked to ensure that none is leaking......and, depending on who you listen to, it needs to be replaced (or....not) periodically.
    In my never to be humbled opinion, (street value < $0.02!!!) the transaxle fluid should be replaced at around 30,000 miles and thereafter every 60,000-90,000 or so, depending on how tough a life your car has.
    Strong opinions and arguments surround this particular maintenance item, and it's one of the few items that I think that the manufacturer got wrong in 2009, and again in 2010 (with the G3s)....etc.
    If you own a G2 Prius....the replacement interval is 100,000 miles according to the guide.
    If you own a G3 Prius.....there is no replacement interval.

    You're at 133,000 miles.
    Toyota CURRENTLY considers this fluid to be good for the normal life of the car (about 20y/250,000 miles)
    If it were my car, I'd replace it myself right now and call it good for a while.
    I would NOT let a dealership do it.

    Your Dad's friend said something very valuable (according to you) that caught my full and immediate attention!
    I believe it went like something like......
    "He mentioned he could do a engine compression test, but told me I probably didn't really need it....."

    When all of this settles down in a month or two, I'd buy the [sic] ATF from Toyota and have him (or her) do the transaxle fluid replacement.

    Note!!!
    This is one of the few times where you want to absolutely use the OEM fluid!!
    The CVT/transaxle/Power Split device has electrical windings in it.
    Using a non-OEM fluid could damage your transaxle....for real....no kidding.


    Good Luck!
     
    #22 ETC(SS), May 18, 2018
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  3. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    ... and that fluid is Toyota ATF-WS.
     
  4. Lex G

    Lex G Junior Member

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    Is this fluid something that I would buy directly from the dealership?
    My questions are:
    How much does it cost?
    How much am I going to have to buy to replace it?
    I'm assuming that this is not something I can replace myself, and I probably need like a car lift machine to do it.

    Is it purchasable on websites like amazon? Or is it safer to just buy it straight from the dealership? (I assume so)

    If the fluid is Toyota ATF-WS, is it the same for all of the models and generations?
    Or is it generation specific?
    If I called up the dealership, would they be able to help me order the right ATF?
     
  5. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    All liquids should have been changed in your car by now. Engine coolant, inverter coolant, transmission fluid, brake fluid and you know about the oil. Keeping all fluids checked and changed is one of the most important things that need to be done to keep and engine healthy.
     
  6. Lex G

    Lex G Junior Member

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    Where would I go about changing these fluids?
    Are they standard fluids that I could pick up at autozone, or do they have to be special ordered specific for my car?
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you need to find a local mech, hybrid specialist or dealership. changing the fluids is experienced diy only, unless your dad or someone can teach you.

    you can plug your vin (vehicle identification number) into the toyota owners website, and see any dealer services and recalls performed before you purchased the car.
    the vin is n the lower left corner of the windshield, and on your registration.
     
  8. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Yes, or from a Toyota dealer's online parts website if you're happy to wait a couple of days. Buy out of state to save state sales tax.
    Not sure, but you can find out from a Toyota dealer's online parts website.
    You need just short of 3.9 qts, so you'll need 4x 1 qt bottles. You will also need 2x drain plug crush washers (called gaskets by Toyota).
    Yes, it is no more complicated than an oil change. Make sure you get the right tools, as one of the plugs needs a hex socket. You won't need a lift, but drive up onto a 2x6 under each wheel (or some low ramps) to give you some more clearance.

    There are a couple of good posts on how to do it here on PC. Use the search function.
     
  9. Lex G

    Lex G Junior Member

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    Are they fluids i'll have to order in advance?
    If my Dad's mechanic friend does a good job on Monday, I'll probably go to him to get the rest of the fluids changed.
    I just wasn't sure if its something I should have them put in an order for ahead of time, or if they are standard fluids available most places.

    I realize that I'm pretty far behind on maintenance since I thought the previous owner or dealership did most of these things.

    So far the maintenance that has been done is:
    - Both front wheel bearings replaced, they had gone bad.
    - 4 new tires
    - Front end alignment last year, and probably getting another one this year
    -Brand new brakes and calipers before winter hit last year.
    - oil changes were done at the normal times, until this recent issue.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    talk to the mech, tell her you only want toyota fluids. she can get them ahead of time. don't let her try to talk you into something else.
    if she prefers, you can get them and bring them with you. there is a maintenance schedule and all the fluid specs in your owners manual.
     
  11. Lex G

    Lex G Junior Member

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    To be honest, I'm probably going to have the mechanic on Monday check out the car and fluids. I am unfortunately not swimming in cash at the moment.

    So far on the list of things to inspect are:
    - Engine coolant
    - Inverter coolant
    - Transmission Fluid
    - Brake fluid (Would this have been changed when I got new brakes?)

    I also checked out the toyota website to try to check recalls. Not seeing any besides the ones for the air bags, but after entering my VIN, it does not say that I am affected.

    I did manage to check what the previous owner had done using the toyota website, but it's very strange in time. There's entries from 2012 and then it just skips to 2014, then to 2016 (when I purchased it). I assume it has something to do with the car being originally from new jersey. How it made its way to Chicago where I bought it, is beyond me.

    As for ordering fluids via toyota's part website, its not easy to determine if you are purchasing the right things. I also noticed the spark plugs on there but all it showed was a pencil sketch looking picture of one.
    I am probably going to have to have the local mechanic order them, or contact the dealership.
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Your spreadsheet is missing replacement of the engine air filter which needs to be done at 30K mile intervals.

    You can buy the engine air filter and cabin air filter on amazon.com or at your local Toyota dealer, or at one of the Toyota dealer web sites. I recommend you buy the correct Toyota engine air filter (not aftermarket.)

    Coolant: get three gallons of Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. This will cost ~$25/gallon. You will need around 7 quarts for the engine and 3 quarts for the inverter.
    Transmission ATF: get four quarts of Toyota ATF-WS and the two aluminum drain/fill plug washers. The ATF will be ~$10-$12/quart and the washers should be $2 each or less.
    Brake fluid: any quality DOT-3 rated brake fluid, the large 32 ounce container. It is quite possible that the brake fluid would have been replaced when brake service was done, but there is no guarantee about that.
    The correct iridium spark plugs will cost around $12 each at the Toyota dealer, you can get them for less on amazon.com:


    I have posted on how to replace engine coolant, see my post #22 here:
    Changing engine coolant | Page 2 | PriusChat

    The inverter coolant drain/replace is not a big deal as long as the correct drain plug is removed on the transaxle (there are two; one for the coolant and the other for the ATF.) The one closest to the engine is for the coolant.

    The transmission ATF fill plug is on the side of the transaxle facing the front of the car.

    There are also posts from others on brake fluid replacement. I suggest that you have the Toyota dealer do that unless your mechanic is experienced with Toyota hybrid service and has access to Toyota Techstream. It is too easy to screw up the brake system, otherwise, if air is allowed to get into the brake actuator.
     
    #32 Patrick Wong, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  13. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    If you don't have such damaged signs, drive that car dude! Engine's durable
     
  14. Lex G

    Lex G Junior Member

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    Thank you for letting me know. Another thing to add to my growing list.


    What is the part name for the engine air filter? The one I found is called an Element Sub Assembly, Air Cleaner Filter. Is that the right one?


    I replaced the cabin air filter with one I got off of amazon. I believe its aftermarket (it wasn't from toyota). It was pretty easy to replace that, and its working fine.


    I found the super long life cool on the parts website. It doesn't say if its gallons or what measurement it is. If I asked for it over phone, do you think the dealership would order the right one?



    What is the difference between ATF-WS and ATF-T-IV?

    They both came up when I typed in ATF-WS into the parts website.



    What is a going price on brake fluid replacement? I'm not sure what is too high of a quote, considering its coming from a dealer.

    I also don't know if it will be cheaper if I order the brake fluid, and then just have the dealership install it.


    Also, thank you for posting on how to replace engine coolant. I am a very picture orientated person, so I am probably going to watch many youtube tutorials before attempting it myself. Anything under the hood, I typically don't touch because I do not want to break something. If it looks easy in a video, I have more confidence to complete that task.
     
  15. Lex G

    Lex G Junior Member

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    I feel like I got the cactus of cars right now. I am very glad its idiot proof.
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Looking through a pdf of the 2005 Prius guide, they use the term "automatic transmission oil". They do not recommend replacement, ever, in the regular maintenance schedule. in the "Additional Maintenance Items for Special Operating Conditions", they do recommend the fluid be replaced, every 60K miles (or 6 years).
     
  17. Lex G

    Lex G Junior Member

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    I just went back and double checked the guide and you are right, it doesn't recommend replacing it at 100k. However, my question is , do you replace it at 60k or at 100k?
    The car is pretty old, and I've had it since for about 2 years now. I'm assuming that the previous owner didn't change it at the 60k or the 100k. Would it still be recommended to replace it? I currently drive anywhere from 15k to 25k in a year. (work has me travel out of state occasionally to train others, and I have to attend at least one class every so often, which requires driving to campus).
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I would change the fluid (with Toyota ATF WS) as soon as possible. My opinion, the best time to change it is very early in the car's life, say at the one year mark, then you can stretch the interval.

    Still, the engine is the big question mark, having pretty much drained. Hope it works out ok. (y)
     
  19. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    $140 for spark plugs?!!!

    They cost about $10/each (Denso SK16R11. Bought at Advance Auto Parts for $9.50 each) and you need 4 of them. That's $40. If you know how to turn a screw driver and a ratchet wrench, you can change the spark plugs yourself. It takes about 20 minutes if you take a 5 minute coffee break in the middle of the job.

    As others have suggested: PAY NO ATTENTION to the service light. It's useless and pointless. You need to keep track of your own intervals. Spreadsheets are great. I keep a log of my auto maintenance in spreadsheets. I also zero the B trip odometer when I change the oil and check the oil level every 1,000 mile or so. I have been owning and working on my own cars since early 80's. I was a little younger than you are right now then. I bought me a set of Craftsman tools from Sears (was a big outlay of money for me in those days, but I still have and use that set today) and learned basic auto maintenance. I bought more tools as I needed them, which would usually be cheaper than having the work done by mechanics. So if you spend $40 on plugs and $40 on tools you need to replace plugs you will still be ahead of $140 quote and will own some tools for very useful jobs like spark plug changes. Of course your Gen 2 Prius will only need plugs once in 100K miles, but still, the advantage of doing simple maintenance tasks yourself is obvious. Same goes for changing transaxle fluid and other things in the car. You will be that much more aware of your car's health and will have that much more understanding of basic concepts of car maintenance and will not succumb to silly quotes of $140 for spark plugs easily.

    Best of luck to you. You chose an excellent car to start with. It's reliable economic and inexpensive to maintain if done by yourself.

    Edit: Spark plugs are under $8 on Amazon right now.

     
    #39 VFerdman, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  20. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Thanks for the clarification.
    I try not to give specific advice for G2s because I do not have much time in type.
    Concur.

    Just to put a bow on this, there are opinions in Priusdom that the [sic] ATF should be replaced early in the car's life (30,000 miles-ish) in order to remove contaminants that might have possibly been shaken out during break-in, and then every 60,000-90,000 miles to prevent fluid break down, and just because.

    I think in the OPs case, we can recommend changing out the fluid on a non-emergency basis, and IF this procedure can be done correctly at a decent cost.
    It's not very hard to do, and it should cost about $120 on the high end.

    I'd probably schedule it for a few months out, just to make sure that everything checks out with the oil issues, and after the spark plugs have been replaced.
     
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