Tesla Sand Bagging the Model 3 Again?

As a courtesy, I have planned your first trip:

1. start - Glenwood Springs. CO
2. charge 28 min. - Grand Junction, CO
3. waypoint - Montrose, CO
4. charge 26 min. - Farmington, NM
5. waypoint - Cortez, CO
6. charge 29 min, - Blanding, UT
7. end - Page, AZ

This would be an interesting trip with a total charge time of 1hr, 23min. Tesla Superchargers have restaurants and rest facilities within walking distance. You eat while your car is charging and you can monitor charger progress on your smartphone while eating your hamburger!

 

You went the wrong way - start in Page, and you missed the Mesa Verde trip and the trip to the bridge and back.

 

What misinformation would that be?

It is interesting you use the word "stink" as a proponent of the ICE! and a Tesla model 3 is within a couple hundred pounds of a similar ICE car in its class, just to clear up some misinformation.

Your arguments regarding batteries would be better suited on the EV Discussion sub-forum rather than the Tesla sub-forum since your argument applies to all BEVs. Or if you are confident of your arguments, you can propose them on a Tesla specific chat list where users are better suited to answer your technical "energy density" argument better than I.

But to answer your argument in a general way:
gasoline is a non-renewable resource
gasoline is a primary contributor to greenhouse gases
gasoline is a primary contributor to various diseases and cancers
gasoline is a primary polluter in our environment
gasoline is expensive relative to electricity as a power source
you are not proficient on the latest battery technology

 

That Tesla was "sandbagging" the range of the Model 3.

I'm not.

It's 600-800 pounds heavier than a Prime.

As a 25 year veteran of the renewable energy business, don't you think I know that?

So are coal and natural gas - the big two electricity generators in the US.

Same.

That's a half-truth. The cost to move my Prime 600 miles is about $25 right now. At my very-low electricity cost of $0.11, the cost to move a Model 3 600 miles would be $16.50 and at CA prices ($0.22), it would be $33.

Yes, I am. In fact, I spend several hours a month just keeping up with Lithium Sulfur battery technology, lithium metal advancements, Zinc-air, and a host of others. I feel confident I know a ton more than you do.

 

Since you're incapable:

Using EVTripPlanner, I get four diversions to Farmington, one to Blanding and one to Grand Junction.

That's 1,293.3 miles and 24 hours 17 minutes of driving in a Model 3 ER.

Doing it the way I did it I get 679 miles and 12 hours 54 minutes of driving.

Not even close.

 

Source:

It would have made more sense that Tesla knows where their cars are and can adjust the SuperCharger network to match the local demand. In contrast, Electrify America is blind to the population of EVs except in a coarse level.

The test drive waiting list in 2016 was longer than I had time to wait. Instead, I replaced our 03 and 10 Prius with plug-in hybrids, BMW i3-REx and Prius Prime.

I appreciate your Tesla enthusiasm but the condescending attitude, not so much. It is sort of like meeting someone who has 'just found Jesus' and makes a pest of themselves to everyone else . . . including other Christians.

Bob Wilson

 

Wait times in California for Superchargers can be an issue, but in regions with lower Tesla populations, that likely isn't going to be the case. Because of the network, the car, and thus you, will know if a charger will be available when you get there.

On another note, Tesla owners chose waiting for a charger over using the battery swap system when it was available.

 

Your math is incorrect, but that's okay, believe whatever you want.

Oh, BTW, there is a destination charger at the Far View Lodge in Mesa Verde Natl. Park open to the general public. But you knew that didn't you?

 

Yes, I have already acknowledged that Superchargers in the LA and SF metro areas can become congested at certain times of the day. Tesla has several new Superchargers under construction in those areas at this time to relieve congestion.

Bob, Tesla had no wait list for model 3s test drives in 2016 because the first model 3s were not produced until July, 2017. You could have driven a Model S in 2016 with no wait time just to see what the Tesla technology was like. You are making stuff up.

Bob, I find this passage condescending and offensive. Yes, I am a Tesla enthusiast because it is the best BEV technology available today. If you find that correcting false information about Tesla is condescending, then I suggest you report the post to a moderator or put me on your "ignore" but I will not respond to your ad hominem attacks in kind.

Tesla has posted the model 3 range at 310 miles. Official EPA testing shows 334 miles and that has been backed up by anecdotal, real world evidence. It is speculated that Tesla did not want to post a 334 mile range (sandbagging) to prevent model 3 sales from cannibalizing Model S sales. Tesla reported the model 3 0-60 time at 5.1 seconds when in fact it has been recorded at around 4.8 seconds. It is speculated that Tesla did not want to post 4.8 seconds (sandbagging) to prevent model 3 sales from cannibalizing Model S sales.

Lee..........(sigh).............I said compared to cars in the model 3 class. The Prime is not in the model 3 class. It is smaller than the model 3 and made with different materials.

And I bet you stayed in a Holiday Inn last night too!

Maybe you are right, but those technologies are rapidly being replaced by renewable power sources - solar, wind, marine kinetics, and hydro-electric.

In California, $25 will buy you around 6 gallons of gasoline. That means you are getting 100 mpg on gasoline in a Prime. That is impossible. You might be getting 100 mpg on a combination of gasoline and electric if most of your trips are under 20 miles. It costs me $0 to go 600 miles in a model 3 since I charge at home with PV. Can you beat that?

You are way off on the cost of electricity in California, but you knew that, didn't you.

I spend several hours a month keeping up with all the misinformation you are spreading about Tesla. I feel confident I know a ton more about Tesla than you do.

I repeat, if you feel confident about your knowledge regarding battery technology, sign up for one of the Tesla specific fora and debate your hypothesis with some of the knowledgeable engineers who are members there. I am not qualified to debate the "energy density" of batteries with you - meaning I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night.

 

That's actually quite close to his reported $0.22/kwh. $0.20/kWh currently is what I track (see June 2018). Not sure if net cost is a few more cents and if that listed price includes taxes, connectivity/delivery charges, etc...

https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/

 

That statistic is misleading from this standpoint: You have two plug-in cars and you have PV, most of the time you will charge at night with TOU rates, which are much less than the rates posted above. I am in the SCE service area. TOU night rates (10pm - 8am) in my area are $0.12/kWh. NEVER charge your car at home during the day unless it is really necessary.

 

Not misleading. He specifically said CA rates. One could argue (and have) that many have home solar and effectively lower prices, but he did not make a rate claim based on that.

My personal situation is a related, but different topic. I don’t have a Model 3 (yet) and he doesn’t charge at my house. We are PG&E and on rate plan E-6. Still pricey here at night: first off-peak (night) baseline tier is $0.18/kWh but the marginal "real" night rate that applies is the next tier at $0.265-0.270/kWh. FWIW, charging peak tier 2 in the summer daytime is a mere $0.46/kWh. Of course, having lots of solar and net metering turns the tables...

I’m quite a bit more optimistic on the EV front, and rather ok with what eco-tech works for others not working for me. In spite of some heated arguments here, there is actually a lot of good quality data exchange.

 

Correct, but his rate claim is misleading because only a foolish person would charge at home during the higher rate TOU. Essentially, I charge my car at approximately the same rate as he pays, $0.11/kWh (but it nets out to zero for me as a result of rooftop solar), that's what we are really talking about here and to stay on topic.

 

I have a Prius plugin (2012) and just got a Model 3.
Those 8 items don't even begin to properly compare the two cars, IMHO.

Mike

 

Curious, are you sure? Sources?

With friends like this . . . time to follow you. I need someone to moderate my growing respect and admiration for the Model 3 and Tesla engineering. You'll do.

Bob Wilson

 

Wasn't about the 8 items. Several of the items were extraneous from the screen capture.

It was in response to a claim they were not in the same size class, which was not correct.

 

I consider it bigger because it's a lift-back, something I absolutely require because of the cargo I carry.

And 10 gallons in Colorado where I live - 60mpg which is about what I get.

How did you buy, install, maintain and plan for replacement of the PV for free? Did you steal it?

Except that I'm not.