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I switched to nickel plated copper busbars

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by PriusV17, Oct 18, 2018.

  1. PriusV17

    PriusV17 Active Member

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    After one and half year of Prius v ownership. I notice the copper bus bars have already started showing signs of corrosion. So I decided to replace them all with nickel plated copper bus bars. So far no noticeable change in MPG. I just didn't want to deal with cleaning them later or seeing a drop in mpg because of corrosion.

    By checking Prius Chat on what other owners encountered, I am taking preventative maintenance (y). There was a tiny spark when one of the sensor tabs touched another terminal. Main advice is to make sure the service plug is switched back to the lock position which hides the "Unlocked" label. If not done right you will see a red triangle of death and will have to reset by disconnecting the 12v battery.

    You can get nickel plated copper bus bars for the Prius on ebay for about $50.

    1yr-corosion.jpg


    nickle-plated-copper-bus.jpg
     
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  2. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Please, please, please tell me you didn't just bust into a 2017 HV battery?

    Hasta la vista warranty.

    To anyone else with a car under warranty, please do not do this...........

    To anyone with a car not under warranty....please do not do this for the mere sake of having nickel plated bus bars. The odds of you causing more damage to the sensor wiring tabs and harness greatly exceed any benefit you will achieve. For example... There was a tiny spark when one of the sensor tabs touched another terminal.....or breaking a tab off or just causing a hairline fracture where the tab is crimped to the wire, etc, etc, etc

    I hate sounding like a jerk, but this needed to be put out there............you probably have a better chance of being struck by lightning than a 'corroded copper busbar' being the root cause of an HV battery problem.
     
    #2 TMR-JWAP, Oct 18, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
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  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Directly from the website of New England Wire Technologies......

    In addition to the selection of base metal and stranding technique, plating is an option to maximize and customize the properties of a conductor. Plating offers a relatively inexpensive means of combining the advantages of two metals.

    The conductors and shields of multi-conductor cable are typically manufactured using copper or copper-based alloy as the base metal primarily due to these materials’ high conductivity, good mechanical performance and reasonable cost. While copper-based materials offer numerous benefits as electrical conductors, many applications require properties beyond what non-coated wire can provide. These properties include solderability, temperature range, contact resistance or corrosion, and chemical resistance; therefore, in order to improve one or more of the above properties, conductors are often plated. A variety of metals can be used for plating; however, tin, silver, and nickel are by far the most common.

    Tin is the most common coating for copper and copper alloys due to low cost and very good solderability. Improved corrosion and chemical resistance is also an advantage of tin plating (but is dependent upon coating thickness). Tin has a relatively low melting temperature and therefore provides little, if any, improvement to the operating temperature range of copper. Also, tin has relatively low conductivity and, when plated over copper, forms an inter-metallic layer which will increase resistance compared to bare or silver plated wire.

    Silver offers extremely high conductivity and will actually reduce the resistance of plated wire. This is particularly beneficial in high frequency applications because the skin effect will result in increased current flow through the silver. In addition to conductivity, silver plating copper will increase high temperature performance and generally improve chemical resistance. Solderability of silver plated conductors is excellent and while silver may experience some oxidation, silver oxide is a conducting material so the impact on solderability is not significant. While silver plating offers many advantages over tinned or uncoated copper, the added cost is a consideration.

    Nickel is a much harder metal than other common plating options and offers excellent resistance to high temperatures. The operating temperature range increase due to nickel plating depends on the thickness of the plating but is superior to that gained by using silver. Nickel is very resistant to harsh environments and corrosion; however, due to its hardness, soldering can be difficult and requires an activated flux. Crimp termination can be a good option for nickel plated wire, but, because it is a hard material, some adjustments to tooling may be necessary. Conductivity of nickel is relatively low and plating will increase the resistance of wire (much like the impact of tin plating).
     
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  4. PriusV17

    PriusV17 Active Member

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    You're right. The all the v's are still under warranty against failure. So 2022 is probably what you are looking at after the warranty expires (for 2012) and by that time you can just buy a new pack.

    As for me. I have a backup harness I got from ebay should I break the first one. I am not too concerned about warranty and am ready to buy a new pack if needed. The original pic is of the backup harness.

    harness.jpg
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Just FYI, bus bar nut torque value is 48 inch/pounds.
     
  6. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    I've used this one many electrical connections over the years for home or automotive. Car battery posts don't corrode when it's used. I'm sure it would help the bus bars in the batteries. Screenshot_20181018-125143.jpeg

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  7. PriusV17

    PriusV17 Active Member

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    Ok. I was a bit worried that I would see a drop in my mpg once I switched. On my drive back from work today, normally I would see 72-76 mpg on my display. Today using the nickel busbars, I got 80mpg. Could be a fluke. But I'm not worried anymore.

    Touching the HV pack is definitely not for everyone especially with warranty, plus the risk of accidents.

    Also my habit is to drive in pure PWR mode and activate the EV when coming to a stop or accelerating from a stop. Toyota claims their new nimh pack charges and discharges 30% faster. I see no loss of mpg using this method and my drives are more responsive. I believe it probably is the new pack chemistry.

    nickel-busbar-mpg.jpg
     
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  8. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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  9. PriusV17

    PriusV17 Active Member

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  10. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I can't believe the expense would be prohibitive.
    So I guess where I end up is...

    If nickel is so superior or has no negative aspects...why aren't the batteries built with nickel plated busbars to start with?

    No...
    I wouldn't mess with them, especially with a almost new vehicle with the luxury of a new car warranty.
     
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  11. PriusV17

    PriusV17 Active Member

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    I can't in good conscious as the caretaker of my own car allow this to happen over time. Toyota should have plated them from corrosion. They plated the main HV contact and that is in perfect condition, while all the copper busbars are completely corroded over time.


    contact-corrosion.jpg

    Hybrid refurbish companies are going that path.

    Anti-Corrosion Nickel-Plated Bus Bars |
     
    #11 PriusV17, Oct 19, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
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  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    How about gold plating, would it be through-the-roof, or just unsuitable?
     
    #12 Mendel Leisk, Oct 19, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I'm thinking the safest and cheapest solution is to periodically inspect, and clean if warranted. A lot of work though, and not without risk?
     
  14. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Your choice.

    My concern would be over voiding the Hybrid Battery Warranty.
    And post #3, seems to suggest Nickel Plating changes the conductivity of the metal potentially increasing resistance.

    Which if true?
    Is fundamentally changing an aspect of the battery the vehicle was designed to use...to make things look shiny.

    Not worth it to me.

    But somebody has to ride the wave of experimentation here. The best proof? Would be long term usage.
     
  15. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    From Wikipedia:

    resistivity of copper is 1.68×10−8 Ohm*m
    resistivity of nickel is 6.99×10−8 Ohm*m

    That's a 4x increase in resistance * meter compared with copper.

    However, the nickel plating should contribute an unmeasurable resistance because the plating is thin.
     
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  16. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Adding nickel plating will have a negligible affect on the resistance of the buss bar as the copper is still there to conduct the current. The current just has to pass through the thin nickel layer to get to the copper. Don't be concerned about any change in conductivity.

    When I bought the refurbished battery for my 2004 Prius, it came with nickel plated bus bars to prevent corrosion from causing HV battery problems. That battery was still performing well 90k+ miles and 5 years later when I sold my 2004 Prius to get my 2016 Prius.

    JeffD
     
  17. PriusV17

    PriusV17 Active Member

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    This switch has definitely been interesting.

    This commute (which involved a 15 mile drive of mostly freeway speeds at 60-65mph) should normally be showing me 52 to 54mpg on the display. Today it showed up as 61 mpg. Never saw that before.

    So it does appear that energy seems to flow better with the nickel plated busbars. At least for my 2017 v.

    nickel-busbar-commute2.jpg
     
  18. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    This commute (which involved a 15 mile drive of mostly freeway speeds at 60-65mph) should normally be showing me 52 to 54mpg on the display. Today it showed up as 61 mpg. Never saw that before. So it does appear that energy seems to flow better with the nickel plated busbars.

    You are greatly mistaken if you believe nickel plated busbars has anything to do with a change in your mpg. Maybe some Slick-50 engine oil and Split-fire spark plugs will give you another 5-10 mpg
     
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  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    A little late now, but maybe you could test, say a clean copper-only bus bar, vs the nickel plated one. leads clamped to bolts, similar to if it was in the pack.

    Not sure what you'd want to measure: resistance, or amperage?
     
  20. PriusV17

    PriusV17 Active Member

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    I'm just observing. I was expecting a negative outcome because logic says copper is better than nickel, especially since my copper is still relatively new. But what I appear to be getting are some positives. That's all I'm observing. It won't be for another maybe 6 months before I can conclude anything. And maybe a year before I can really know.