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Featured Tesla, GM, Nissan, and others form coalition to reform electric vehicle tax credit

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Trollbait, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    "Several automakers, including Tesla, GM, and Nissan, have joined forces with other players in the electric vehicle space to launch a “coalition” with the aim to “reform and recharge” the electric vehicle tax credit.
    ...
    Last month, a Republican senator introduced a new bill to end the $7,500 federal tax credit for electric cars and tax them even more instead.

    But a few days later, another Republican senator proposed a new bill to remove the federal tax credit cap for EVs and expand it to 2022.

    Republican Senator Dean Heller, who introduced the pro EV tax credit bill that would see it extended instead of capped, was defeated in the mid-term elections earlier this month.

    With those two distinct bills, the Democrats regaining control of the House, and Republicans expanding their majority in the Senate, it’s really unclear what will happen of the EV federal tax credit."
    Tesla and others laucnh attempt to reform electric vehicle tax credit
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nice! i hope they can pull something together to keep the momentum rolling.

    happy to see gm maintaining interest in ev future.
     
  3. mozdzen

    mozdzen Active Member

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    I'd say allocate 2,000,000 EVs for the tax credit and put it into one pool. Laggard companies get none. Trailblazers get it all.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i like it
     
  5. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Works for me, with two GM plug-ins. Now, let's build up the infrastructure.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    exactly
     
  7. How about people who can't get a full-time job but have put in 30 years of loyalty to work in their life be eligible for the FULL credit REGARDLESS of their income or taxes? :mad:
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good point, maybe just make the credit to the manufacturer
     
  9. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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    I'd personally prefer a larger credit in terms of cars manufactured that can be spread across multiple years, but with a price cap. No subsidizing rich peoples' $85k cars.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i was thinking that, then thought, maybe we need the rich people to change the world. trickle down demonomics:cool:
     
  11. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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  12. dubit

    dubit Senior Member

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    I'm for not subsidizing anyone's car.

    That's not a popular statement on this site, and I've been given grief for it before. But holy crap... Once Uncle Gov starts giving assistance for anything, it never goes away.
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    understand, but do you realize how much government is subsidizing outside of electric cars?
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't disagree, but this article does not address the necessity of rich people supporting companies like tesla until they are viable.
    if the percent of rich buying teslas is insignificant, the additional tax breaks don't add up to a hill of beans anyway.
     
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  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I want a reality check- have the various subsidy programs operated to date enabled manufacturers to lower the costs of electric car parts?

    If we're gaining traction and (for example) motor and battery costs are on an accelerating downward trend due to volume & scale effects, then it's something worth continuing for a while yet.

    If we've already found a limit and this is just a band-aid to reduce the sticker shock, then it's a terrible idea to continue.

    Since you asked, I'd rather roll out a big gas tax and simultaneously offer a matching credit on your first 300 gallons per year.

    But back on topic: I just want to see evidence that the money spent on subsidizing electric cars is actually making industrial electric car production technology more affordable, not just reducing the prices on specific VINs.
     
    #15 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Nov 23, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i doubt anyone knows for sure, and different mfgs are probably at different cost levels

    i think reducing the sticker shock sells more cars, which allows more r&d, which brings better, lower cost products and economies of scale.

    look at what credits and rebates are doing to prime sales. ( not to mention hov stickers) without them, there probably won't be one.
     
  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...interesting to wacth
     
  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I get that- I phrased it carefully. I know there is going to be a basic benefit from stimulated demand, the natural result of subsidized unit sales. A public subsidy should inspire other investment, and with or without said co-investment should still result in the industry building up for beyond the small scales initially sold. As a representative of the taxpaying public, I'm not trying to buy a business solution engineered to capture all subsidy dollars. I'm trying to get a snowball rolling down a hill, to get the factory to buy the right machine and hire the right people to build the pluggy car for less money than the stinky car.

    Has anyone (publicly) taken a look at current pluggy cars to see which would be the easiest to scale in production?
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not that i have seen, but there are quite a few websites that follow ev development very carefully. for all i know, that kind of information may be available.

    to simplify the debate to 'i don't like tax subsidies' doesn't work, but it matters not, because congress doesn't go in depth to make a decision, they just look at votes and pac money.
    so we're really stuck with a yay or nay, and who we vote for.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    If the reason wealthy people buy a Tesla isn't to save the planent, it does not matter to the impact that sale had in helping all plug ins reach affordable costs.

    Get rid of the tax breaks, low land lease rates, etc. that the petroleum industry benefits from, and I'll join you.

    Note, we did end the hybrid subsidies, and without change, the current plug in ones will end. Even the suggested changes include an end date for them.
    The evidence is out there. Enough that we know the predicted cost reduction the incentive would have on batteries has been exceeded. The anecdotal evidence is that claimed and leaked numbers for battery costs for some are in the $100 to $200 range per kWh. Guesses and statements when the Volt, Leaf, and PiP first came to market had those costs in the $600 to $1200 range.

    I'd go for that gas tax idea. Better yet would be to apply the tax to petroleum directly.

    I don't like the current plug in incentive because it rewards the fence sitters. I'd like to see it extended to a set end date for everybody. It should also be changed to a rebate or other direct subsidy at time of sale, or allow the credit to carry over for two to three years.