The End of the Transitional PHEV

I believe the shortest life tanks are ten years since date of manufacture with 25 year ones available for CNG. Toyota put a don't fill up past this date on the filler flap of the Mirai. Put a fifteen year tank in a car, and it is only a concern to the second or third owner. Much like the battery in a plug in.

The pressure of natural gas lines in the house can be as low as 0.25psi. At the main, before it enters the house, it is 60psi. CNG tanks in cars fill to 3000psi to 3600psi. The seals and gaskets in a home fill station undergo a lot of wear and tear.

Even if the costs for home filling stations drop, the car manufacturers may still not support them over the question of the fuel's purity. Honda had stopped doing so, and I know of no manufacturer okay with the use of home brewed biodiesel in their engines for the same reasons.

GM had offered a bifuel Silverado and maybe an Impala. These vehicles had tanks for gasoline and CNG that they could switch between. Ford has a CNG ready option on some of their trucks; they factory install many of the necessary components for CNG to make conversion easier and cheaper to the buyer. Crown Vic had a CNG option for fleet buyers.

So working for personal vehicles isn't that far fetched. Refueling stations would be need, but NG lines nearly go everywhere in the US, so this isn't a big hurdle. Another issue that needs to be addressed is the same as with ethanol, NG has a high octane; around 130. Most cars using CNG are converted from gasoline. To improve their efficiency on CNG, the engine needs to be designed for that high octane. That needs to be done because part of CNG's low cost now is that it avoids road taxes; that will change if the fleet switches over.

Converting over the commercial fleet is much easier. Fewer station locations are needed to support the fleet. Local use ones, like buses and garbage trucks, are likely already using a private station for refueling already. Then most of the converted trucks would be diesels, so would make better use of the high octane from the start. The Picken's plan called for converting trucking to natural gas, and replacing personal cars with BEVs powered by wind. I could see someone devising a combination bus and car hauler to transport people with vehicle on long trips under such conditions.

 

that's why so few manufacturers are interested. take away the carb credits, hov stickers and tax credits and there wouldn't be any plug ins at all.

 

If BEV is the future, why doesn't Toyota have one, thinking their hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is the future?

 

they will have one... in the future

 

I posted this previously, but will do so again: hydrogen makes more sense in Japan than in a lot of other places. In trying to move to a clean energy economy, there are only so many fuel sources (especially with moving away from nuclear) for an island nation with their population. They already have to import fuels, and hydrogen could simply swap for these imported fuels in their energy landscape. Toyota likely thinks that they can fill this niche in their home market, substituting imported fossil fuels for hydrogen.

 

Toyota is a global company and they sell this car in Cali. I suspect sales are dismal in Cali.

I'm sure Toyota could come out with a BEV in short order if they want (they surely have the technology), but they haven't. They are probably waiting for the market to develop further.

 

Just read Japan has restarted a couple of their nuclear plants.

Based on the sales performance of BEVs in the past, around the time of the EV1, when batteries were lead acid or NiMH, Japan reached the conclusion that BEVs will only work as short range city cars. The industry still thinks that; look at the iQ EV. So investment was put into FCEV and hydrogen fuel.

It does have a shot for working in Japan. But to help lower the costs of the cars, Toyota is pushing hydrogen in other markets. Ones in which it doesn't make much sense.

 

Look at Prime specs, Toyota could easily create a decent BEV. They invested in FCV for many many years with good reasons. The future is quite clear that BEV is the way go, but just recently.

 

To be fair, Toyota came out with a NiMH RAV4 that could go 95 miles in 1997. They sold out quickly, though they didn't build many.

GM used NiMH in the EV1 and had patent rights, which they sold to Texaco, later joined by Chevron.

Chevron sued Toyota and stopped the car from being built and won $30 million dollars (Now why would an oil company try to stop an electric car from being sold? Hmm...).

Toyota tried again with the RAV4 using Tesla Lithium-ion batteries, with a range over 100 miles. They didn't build many and stopped building them after a couple of years.

So Toyota has plenty of experience and should know better. Maybe they felt burned by the problems of not owning their own battery technology.

 

nah, they were just compliance cars. they have their own batteries now, still won't build one. financially a loser

 

We don't have a current EPA range for the first Rav4. With a 24kWh battery, the first Leaf had a 84 mile range. The Rav4's pack was 27kWh. Assuming larger buffer capacity for NiMH, and worse aerodynamics, it probably wouldn't do much better than the Leaf today. Using the gen2 Rav4 for comparison, and the predicted range is worse. The latest has a 41.8kWh pack with 103 miles of range. Assuming same efficiencies, the gen1 would be rated 66 miles.

Toyota was fine with crushing the off lease Rav4's along with GM. They gave in to public pressure to stop.

Toyota did not try with a the gen2 Rav4. They just supplied a glider(everything but the drive train) to Tesla, who did an EV conversion. When the production number for the contract was met, Toyota chose not to extend it, despite there being demand. Wouldn't do to have it compete with the Mirai.

The 100% Toyota BEV planned at that time was the iQ EV. It had only 38 miles of range on the EPA. With the public reaction to it, Toyota cancelled plans to actually sell it in California(none of their BEVs were available outside of Ca). The few that were made ended up in ride share companies.