1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

EV-only goes from 7 battery bars to 2 in 1.5 miles. Normal?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Reesmaxwell, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. Reesmaxwell

    Reesmaxwell New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    13
    15
    0
    Location:
    Eugene, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    First off, it's getting cold here (well, cold for Oregon). After a late night at work I was driving home and noted the following:
    Time: 8:30pm
    Temp: 34 F
    Battery Bars: 7

    Observations:
    I started up the car and let it run for a few minutes while the cabin heated up: heater on full, fan on full, front and back defrost on, seat heater on. (Like I said, it was cold! ...for us NW wimps.) Then I turned off the heater/fan/seat heater, etc. entirely. (Even turning off the Defrost light which seems to stay on even with fan off, unless tapped.) That turned off ICE.
    Started driving on ECO and keeping in the left-side where the EV light was on and ICE off. Drove that way for less than 2 miles and the battery bars went to 2. I had to stop at a light and then drive over to the right side of that horizontal gauge where the ICE turns on...and from then on the EV wouldn't turn back on on the left side. This while time I didn't have any fan or heater or seat heater on.

    Two questions:
    1: Is my battery almost dead that it went from a strong 7 bars to 2 bars in under 2 miles? (took a while to drop to 6 and then it kept dropping at a faster rate) Or is this just a factor of it being 34 F outside?

    2: Is there a thing where if the battery is on 2 bars it will tend to want to turn on ICE?

    Note:
    I have a Carista on order, and will use the Dr. Prius app to see what it has to say...but I wondered if anyone here could tell me what they know about cold and battery bars?

    Thank you!!
     
  2. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    In cold weather the need for heat inside the car will always turn the ICE on. Once the Prius is started it will never let the engine get cold because of pollution, it's a green car.
    Two bars seems about right to cause the ICE to restart.
     
    bisco likes this.
  3. Reesmaxwell

    Reesmaxwell New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    13
    15
    0
    Location:
    Eugene, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Thanks for your response, but I'm confused, what does this mean:
    ?
     
  4. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2013
    684
    1,226
    0
    Location:
    Queensbury, NY
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    No, your battery sounds perfectly healthy. Keep in mind it's a tiny little pack and is only intended to provide torque for the simulated Atkinson cycle engine which produces very little on it's own. Your observation of rate of charge drop is correct and explained here:
    Prius_ComplexSOC.jpg

    Yes, indeed. This is precisely when the gas engine fires. The car will keep the battery state-of-charge between ~40-80% despite a drivers best efforts to do otherwise;).
     
    #4 m.wynn, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,801
    48,996
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    you're driving the car all wrong, and it's killing your mpg's. it is not an ev, it is a hybrid.

    just drive it. and if you want to improve mpg's, youtube 'pulse and glide'
     
    #5 bisco, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  6. jack black

    jack black Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2018
    225
    142
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    and killing the battery too.
     
    Lightning Racer and fuzzy1 like this.
  7. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four

    Once the ICE is started, if you stop and the engine shuts down over a period of time the engine will restart without the HV battery needing recharged because a cold engine pollutes the air. Cold engines run rich, meaning a fuel to air ration above stoichiometric 14.7 : 1 and are a big source of pollution.

    Air–fuel ratio - Wikipedia
     
  8. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,783
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    It has a relatively small battery and really was NOT designed to run very far on battery alone.......especially not when cold and the battery capacity is slightly reduced.

    I am lucky to get a couple of hundred yards on my C.......and even to do that I must drive in an impractical manner.
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,726
    38,254
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    With the cold snap the last few days, I've found the less cabin heat demand, the faster it warms up, and the sooner it'll shut down at red lights. Setting cabin temp to 18C (as low as it'll go in centigrade), and shutting it right off at stops, I get engine shut down within a few blocks. Helps that I'm using a block heater too, for a couple of hours before setting off.

    Try to keep your hybrid battery above half when possible, use the engine and battery, recoup charge whenever there's a slowdown, coast and charge.
     
    RMB likes this.
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,123
    10,049
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    No, this is not normal, it is exceptionally good! Toyota never suggested that it would go over a mile this way.

    Remember that is is not a true EV car, it is really a gasoline powered car, the hybrid electric part helps with efficiency.

    Don't try to drive it as an EV-only this way very much, as this puts excessive cycles on the battery and is not how this car gets its best fuel economy.
    Yes, this is where the ICE is normally forced on to prevent a too-low battery.
     
    jerrymildred and Mendel Leisk like this.
  11. Reesmaxwell

    Reesmaxwell New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    13
    15
    0
    Location:
    Eugene, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Oh my gosh!!
    Thank you everyone for helping to prove beyond a doubt what an idiot I am. :LOL::ROFLMAO:

    So yeah, I just thought that since a lot of my drives are short, I’d ...never mind, I’m an idiot. Got fooled by the EV-only button. Why the hell would you want to use that then? To sneak up on someone? ;)

    I get it now. ...Sort of. I’m going to spend a few days NOT looking at the gauges and just driving regularly—as in, how I usually drive, and see what mileage I’m getting. A baseline for how anyone borrowing my car would drive if they didn’t know it was a hybrid.
    Then I’ll watch more vids on around-town Prius driving to get a clue.

    And gonna work on getting the engine warm and keeping it that way...though not to the detriment of seeing out the window through a fogged windshield. I saw some ppl recommend the tubular insulation for the grills, and one recommend the L or V shaped corner insulation. Any preference?
    (In these temps I think the chart here somewhere says cover 100% lower and like 50% upper, but I’ll check.)

    Much learning to do this Palawan has.

    Thanks very much everyone!!
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,123
    10,049
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes, to sneak home. Or to sneak away. ;) Or to move the car around between garage and driveway spaces while bypassing that fuel-wasting cold engine warmup, though even this is fairly restricted.

    Or, more honestly, because (1) customers were demanding it, (2) some drivers were adding it to their Gen2 anyway, so may as well put it on Gen3, and (3) there are some valid uses for it. But it isn't as useful as many neophytes and potential owners would hope.
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,726
    38,254
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I've found EV is never available with a stone-cold engine, which is about the only time I'd really want to use it, to avoid the engine firing up if I want to move the car a few feet, say out to the driveway. So yeah: never, lol.

    For that cold-engine few-feet move:

    Once you "ready" the car (one push of start button with foot on the brake), you have about 15 seconds until the engine fires up. If you want to avoid engine start up, always play it safe, count say to 10, then shut down. Repeat as needed.

    Also, you can extend that 15 seconds indefinitely, if you (for example) shift to Reverse or Drive, get rolling, and then shift to Neutral, coast the rest of the distance to where you want to go. Only caveat: shut down the car by pushing the power button again; do not shift out of Neutral, or the car WILL fire up. Shutting down with the button will put it in Park properly.

    The main object with all these shenanigans, is to avoid a short start up and shutdown. Short startups, without complete warm up, have a couple of possible consequences:

    1. It's just generally rough on an engine, wastes gas.
    2. Cold engine start up and nearly immediate shut down have been noted quite a few times here, as a possible precursor to bad cold-engine knock at a subsequent start up, say the next day.
     
    fuzzy1, Reesmaxwell and Bill Norton like this.
  14. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,491
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Plenty of good advice already, @Reesmaxwell.

    Here's some good reading. John's a regular here and has lots of excellent information. The page has a link to a well written pdf file that I found really educational.
    John's Stuff - Toyota Prius User-Guide
     
  15. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,783
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    Kind of.
    In my C, it is worthless.

    I think others have reported that the only situation where it is worth anything is if you are crawling along in a traffic jam at about 5 mph and can just let it creep along on electric without touching the gas pedal.
    And that only works for a little bit, as you have found.
    So in all the hybrid models, it really is almost worthless.
     
  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,491
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Best use I know if is if you just want to move the car a little ways without the engine going through its warm-up and wasting gas or else shutting it off cold, which isn't good for it. Like if you just want to move it out of the driveway for visitors or out of the garage to wash it.
     
  17. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I think I tried it a couple of times on my Gen 4 and it didn't come on the US model of Gen 2.
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,726
    38,254
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Jerry is plug-in, maybe different again?
     
  19. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,491
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Yes, plug-in is very different in the EV functionality. But I installed an EV button in my 2005 and it worked about the same as in a gen 3, just with less power on tap. There's so little EV range that it's only useful for moving the car to another place on your property or in the same parking lot. (European gen 2 actually had an EV button.) Unless you have a PiP or Prime, EV mode is not for going places; just for moving the car.

    That said, if you're a few blocks from home and on like 25 mph streets and the battery is green or just fell out of green to blue, it's probably smart to go easy on the throttle and EV it the rest of the way home. I even do that sometimes in wifey's '07.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,123
    10,049
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    It probably worked even better than the Gen3 version, which is locked out when engine coolant temperature is below 20C / 68F in North America. In my climate, that lockout applies more than 350 mornings per year.

    Foreign market units could work down to freezing, and I thought those who added the EV switch to their American Gen2s got the same.
     
    Mendel Leisk, RMB and jerrymildred like this.