Featured Toyota Won’t Make A Proper EV Because Dealers Say It Won’t Sell

SET can not refuse to sell Prius Plug-Ins, they just don't want to and don't take the allowances offered by TofA. You can still order one in though, even from their most butt-crack inbred Dealerships.

 

Can't agree on the bold statements.
1. VW hasn't dropped diesels at all...Even Toyota hasn't, in light commercial/trucks and Land Cruiser vehicles.
2. Model 3 same price range of Corolla?

 

The Tesla Model 3 comes in pretty expensive. The midrange Model 3 is running around $45k without the $5k autopilot.

 

... and? Chevy Bolt with OUT autopilot comes in at ~$42K .... and GM is NOT building out a multi-stall Nationwide clean infrastructure. So .... where is the real bargain

i would HATE to even try to imagine what kind of fees they would add on to make you regret forcing them to do what they don't want to do. But yeah with enough money you can create spite. Do you want a deal? Or do you want to truly be able to say, "boy, I sure showed them."
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Isn't the simple way to look at this thus.
Large Automakers, like Toyota, have to build to the populace, to the masses. And the truth is, as great as any incarnation of an alternative automobile might be, the masses still embrace the ICE. As much as charging stations are coming along, the infrastructure tangibly and commercially is still the "gas station".

So evolution is painful.

But this same reality, was applied to the Prius. But Toyota built them, promoted them, and eventually they became successful.
Seems to me I can accept that a EV would be hard for dealerships to sell in great quantity, but also? They aren't going to be able to even try, if one doesn't exist.

Toyota has always referred to the Prius as a bridge technology. And with the plug in, and the Prime, it seems Toyota is crossing that bridge, incrementally, slowly, and conservatively.
But they are crossing it.

Toyota has to manufacture with an eye to at least the possibility of main stream acceptance.
Regardless of what is being said, or the feedback from dealers, or even the commercial reality that exists for today, I would imagine Toyota is very aware, alert and involved in all evolving transportation technology.

They might not be in the game today. But they can be tomorrow, and they have the advantage of having the infrastructure that makes entering the game, easier for them.
I'm not particularly worried that they have no immediate plans to introduce a full EV.
For now?
Prius and Prius Prime, are the "Alternative " products Toyota manufactures and sells.

 

All the dealers in the US are independent third parties. After WWII , the independent dealers got laws passed to keep the car manufacturers from setting up their own stores for direct sales to the public if an independent dealer network already exists. When foreign models came to the country, those manufacturers were convinced they had to use such a dealer network.

Dealerships are also service stations, and most of their income comes from that side of the business. BEvs require little maintenance.

Tesla was able to go with direct sales by not having an existing third party network in place. Dealerships associations fought them in nearly every state, and several have laws banning Tesla stores or those stores actually carrying out sales; employees can only direct buyers to the website. Some have worded their plug in incentives to exclude Tesla.

We may not have the details on the discussion between Toyota and their dealers, but most dealers view BEVs as a threat to their business model; a service station that sells cars on the side.

 

a bolt can poly be had for around 20k, where a tesla is never discounted new

 

Well. My Rav4ev members seem to have a lot more expensive problems than an ICE car. Sure, I don’t have to change oil, but I still have to change coolant for the battery and motor. Then the EV parts are hell more expensive than the extended warranty. So I will run mines into the ground until something breaks. Then have to part it out to other owners.

Besides.... have anyone visited Tesla Service Center? They are have lines longer than any dealers ever hope to get. Sure... EV don’t break. Stupid uneducated businessmen... or women.

 

Well. Bolt has issues. For a new car, their features are out of date.

No smart cruise control... worse than Prius refresh without Safety Sense 2.0. And then their fast charging slows down at 50%.... better than Nissan.... but who aren’t? Seats are uncomfortable.

But if you don’t care about those things, it is cheap with major discounts.

Or if you want a large EV with very little limit, get a CPO Tesla S. With so many lease returns, they are hell of cheap for its car class. I hear Tesla giving away a few upgrade for free to make the sale of CPO.

 

Here the base model 3 will have the same price as the base corolla yea, exact same price cause of taxes and fee`s cause theyre ICE... And electric cars dont have those taxes, they dont even have that main "25%" tax that everything else in Norway has. Norways plan is for is for it to be beneficial for us to move over to EV`s, which is why they took away taxe son electric cars and gave them special benfits like free parking , free passing at toll boths, and drive in the bus lane and such. And have 90% of the vehicles on the road electric within 2025, which means the model 3 will cost around 31 000 dollars here, corolla will cost around 18 000 dollars in USA, import fee`s to norway is around 10 000 dollars (same for dealerships as private people), plus the 25% tax that all ICE cars has. which brings the price up to around 35 000 dollars, which is the base price of the model 3 that comes for sale here in 6 months.

And VW will stop production of diesels in 2019 in EU, dont know if its the whole VW group or just VW,, but from what i understood of the article i just read a few days ago its VW group. VW wouldnt stop selling diesels just in Norway? Wouldnt really be financially benefical for them to produce a "diesel replacement" for just the diesels in little Norway. Or maybe theyve done it Norway cause they stand for the minority of the sales here, think they only stand for like 14% of the sales. VW`s plan is to produce the last generation of both petrol and diesels engines by 2026, but sell them "as new" until 2040. By 2026 they will have 50 different EVs for sale that will replace diesels and petrol, diesel is also dissapearing now cause of the NOx, apparently our politicans care about us who lives here so theyve sat u a diesel ban in Oslo in winters when the NOx output is to bad. Toyota havent stopped diesels in land cruiser. But they have in all other models, and VW will do the same, and id say its more correct to say "stopped diesel sales" cause the land cruiser and hilux doesnt exactly stand for a huge percentage of sales. Like 5% of their sales is the land cruiser, while the rest 95% of their cars that majority of people buy have gone hybrid and petrol only, been like that for quite a while here... Isnt really correct to say toyota have kept diesels cause then it sounds like u can still get it in all their cars. I believe that when (if) companies like Rivian rises, as Tesla did, we will be making the move over to EV`s in a way faster rate then the already existing huge car companies believe... I think they will get forced to go over to all electric some time in 2020-2026.

 

Yes, I have visited a Tesla service center.
Last time I was there I arrived without an appointment with my wife's Model 3. It needed to have a taillight cover replaced. I drove up, got out and spoke with the technician. Went and sat in the waiting room. 10 minutes later they drove it up and I drove off.

However, the most recent time I had my car repaired (they were replacing the side mirror because of excessive wind noise) they came to my house and replaced the mirror while it was in my garage. Checked all the fluids and filled the tires.
This was all done while I had lunch.

I'm quite happy with the service and purchase experience I have had without a stealership.

 

Cheap auto parts are a result of high volume production. Once you make a million or more of a model of autos - the aftermarket producers find profit by volume production. Use those same (for example) side view mirrors for 3 or 4 or more years, & the profit margin gets easier.

rav4EV is a great example of parts being more expensive for a limited production. What - you don't think you would pay a ton of $$ for any other car where they only make a few 1,000?

First - your statement negates how large a contingent of Tesla owners are still under manufacturer's warranty. Especially true is that when you pay a ton of $$ for a car, you take it in for every little nitpick. Thus - a full 90% of tesla service visits are fit & finish issues (guy in front of me was in due to scuffs around the molding) , as well as (my better ½ as an example) failing to read the manual. You make an appointment because your doors won't auto present? But it's not programmed to auto present any more frequently than 30 seconds? But you expect them to every second because you don't know better? And even ½ of the tech's don't know it yet? Our Gen 2 Prius was caught in a long wait when the screen had a massive failure rate. And that was Toyota, known for high quality with their ½ century of experience growing in quality.
Even the lowly Prius had insanely expensive labor charges to change out a headlight on the Gen 2. Then Luscious Garage in San Francisco figured out how to change it in a matter of seconds, she put her technique on a YouTube vid - & headlight labor install prices dumped as a DIY job was so very simple. Remember the $100 plus rip off charge to program a smart key? Then it was discovered you could do it yourself? Same thing happened with model S door handles. It was an outrageous expense out of warranty, then a DIY process made the repair a simple fix.
We are truly living in a self-absorbed age - when we expect a company hardly more than 5 years old, that they will perform like one that has dialed in their details since the 1980s. Do they really have to perform like the big boys? After all, for now - their product(s)? They are the only game in town.
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True, EVs can break and need repair. But, they don't need oil & filter changes. They don't have spark plugs, timing belts, injection systems, oxygen sensors, etc, all things that either need periodic maintenance or expensive repairs. Many less moving parts on an EV means less chance of something breaking.

 

That's just code for "We don't have an EV to sell to you at the moment. Nothing more."

 

The RAV4-EV is a poor example. It had a Tesla drivetrain. It was not Toyota's technology.

Toyota Australia also says Australians do not want a PHEV. I suspect @alanclarkeau would tell them differently.

 

doors, door latches, door locks, seat belts, adjustable seating, rearview mirrors, windshield wipers, HVAC blowers and compressors, wheels, steering system, turn signal stalk, airbags, windows...

I grant you that getting rid of the engine and transmission eliminates many moving parts...

But there's still plenty in that list to create service opportunities. The last Tesla X I rode in had a wobbly, rattly seat. It's gonna take more than a firmware download to fix that.

 

So, Toyota is just saying Elon Musk was right in shunning dealers for Tesla and selling direct.

Dealers have little incentive to sell a lower maintenance BEV when the bulk of their profit is from after sales servicing. Less maintenance means less servicing profit.

 

Plenty of things that could break on a BEV, there is just very little in terms of maintenance items to generate a steady flow of customers for a service department. A well made ICE car with a careful driver still needs to change the oil at some time. Even a PHEV that runs 100% EV will need to do that at some point.

 

I feel Toyota looks at what's selling in Japan and USA. Presumably Japan is less BEV focussed than USA. Sometimes we have realize our strong views on things have a different slant in different countries. For example Post #11 above someone forget to tell the Norway "hydrogen is the future" residents that H2 fuel cells have absoluely zero merit - what are they thinking?

 

Which is even more critical in aviation. Pipistrell aircraft makes both ICE and EV versions of its basic flight training aircraft . Besides fuel savings, the major cost savings for the Fixed Based Operator using the EV version is that the major overhall for the EV version is replacing precisely 2 major bearings at the propeller end and the cabin end of the motor, compared with disassembling an entire ICE, comparing all those parts to spec, and replacing out-of-spec parts and reassembling the whole thing.
And “less chance of something breaking” whilst flying the machine is simply GOLDEN, as I beleive any pilot who has had an ICE quit on him or her in-flight would also tell you.