Featured Toyota Won’t Make A Proper EV Because Dealers Say It Won’t Sell

Please explain how the bold part is present in HSD? In conventioanl transmission ATF is getting heated up in Torque Converter in PSD there so hydraulic effect and no heating from that part, the only thing that heats in the transaxle are the two MGs.

 

You're ignoring a heck of a lot of heating between gear tooth faces. That heat is directly borne by whatever lubricant is in there.

 

Friction is also a major source of heat.

The rear differential on a RWD car is as far as you can get from the engine in the drive train. It is just gears in an oil bath, with no other source of heat near by. The Ram 2WD pick will now have coolant flowing back there to help cool it while under heavy load or towing.

 

both Kona and Niro look like they might be real bolt killers! .... at least until the model Y waitlist begins. Ya thank the 6-figure line for the cheap 3 is long? The Y will REALLY create some pent-up demand. If Toyota is there? despite no infrastructure? I'll still be loyal ... yea ... call me wacky.

EDIT;
Rethinking ~Okay, it can't have a flybridge nor giant fake air holes in the front, nor just 4 seats.
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.... nor do they want to have anything to do with assuring you ~ that you will have any kind of "gasoline type" infrastructure. Definitely need to charge? Sorry baby, you are on your own.
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This is perfect for the 0.0001% of the population who have plenty of garage space and want to go there (as a hobby) compared to those who purchase a car to go someplace else.

Mike

 

I agree with the profit logic. And the cost to fuel an electric car is soon going to hurt, and hurt bad. My office is installing electric fuel stations. Cost: $0.20 per kwh. Over 4 hours of charging or loitering, pay another $1.50 per hour. That is the starting price. With no where to go but up. Is that a deal or what?

Also, EV fueling stations are grid limited. As the number of cars charging at the same time goes up, so does the time to fuel each car once the peak instant consumption is reached. Superchargers will become slumber chargers. Telsa should adopt full lay down seats and space blanket storage as a sales strategy.

 

In my aged condition I read your statement as, "blame the pot. I don't feel sad." Which actually makes more sense.

Quick question: Which produces more CO2 emissions: fossil fuel burning vehicles, or electrical generation powerplants? The answer points to the fact that if we were to freeze the transportation energy puzzle right now, we would be better off than we will be with cars requiring electrical grid charging. For one, I welcome the fuel cell car as a gift from our insect overlords.

 

Tesla will never deliver a significant number of $35,000 Model 3s. Probably there will be one or two or none at all. Their own recent new releases point to the fact that the as-of-yet-unrealized Model 3, if built today, would cost $38,000 to produce. That looks like a double digits loss in the thousands to the trained eye per vehicle. 300,000 sales at a $3000 loss is $900,000,000. And that is why the "$420 price per share, funding secured" is so meaningful. Smoke em if you gots em.

 

Seriously? Most people will mostly charge at home. Where electric prices are very well known and stable. And people can purchase solar panels and lock in their price for longer than the life of a car. What other technology allows this?

There is some truth to this but you are way off. As I understand it at the superchargers there are two charging cables per station. If there is one car plugged in you get the max charging rate and if there are two cars you get a lower rate. But there can be 20 charging stations at a location with 2 chargers each...the first 20 (50%) of the cars can all get the max charging rate.

Do you have better information?

The charging station was a design choice by Tesla ...probably for cost reasons.

There is no reason why lots of cars can't all charge at once. Lots of houses are able to run A/C at once.

Mike

 

someone just posted a study (bob w?) showing that ev's are cleaner than gassers right now overall in the u.s.
taxman, our local expert and diesel fan agreed with the study.
i don't know what else to go by except studies paid for by the koch brothers.

not sure what you mean regarding fuel cells, how are they helpful?

 

Hard to know precisely what is going on.

A few months ago, UBS analyst Colin Langan claimed the Model 3 would be unprofitable with the upcoming standard battery pack based on their teardown of the long range battery pack trim. He claimed Tesla would be losing ~$5,900 per car sold at the $35k MSRP.

Just a couple months before that, Munro revised/finished their teardown analysis and noted a gross margin of over 30% for the Model 3. IIRC, that was for the long range battery pack trim.

But Fred Lambert of Electrek tweeted at the end of May this year: "You agree that the cost could go down to ~$28,000 on average at 10k units/week?" and Musk replied "Definitely". This tweet seems to be derived from that happenings of earlier that month when a German engineering firm reportedly completed a teardown of the vehicle and claimed materials/logistics costs of $18,000 and labor costs of $10,000 for a total cost potential cost of $28,000 once Tesla gets up to 10,000 units a week.


My suspicion is that there are two main reasons the $35k MSRP Model 3 has taken so long to show up and will take a considerable while longer to present in volume:
a) Tesla lied about (pessimistic/shorter view) or underestimated (optimistic/faithful view) how long it would take for the standard range trim to become profitable (even with economies of scale)
b) As long as there are orders for the most profitable/higher trim models stateside and internationally, there remains little financial incentive to make the standard range trim

 

i can't comment on a, because the experts have spoken, and i know nothing.

regarding b, i was in business for 30 years, and don't understand people who think a for profit company should sell a product with a lower 'gross profit' (not 'margin') if production capability doesn't allow.

 

I have to say the a) is probably from all the FUD from short sellers. Tesla simply had trouble ramping up production. If you are production limited, why would you use that production to produce less profitable cars. Tesla probably would be producing model 3 standard pack standard interior today if they didn't have your b) high demand for more profitable cars that needed the same line. The battery cells seem to be limiting now, so they came out with the medium range pack that uses less battery production, but pushed people to buy the D for the long range pack increasing total company profitability.

The claim that it is because it wouldn't be profitable is a red herring. They could like gm and toyota simply raise the price until it was profitable. ;-)

 

I see no advantage to an EV over a traditional hybrid.

No single-word or two-word utterance of Elon Musk should be treated as truthful.

No teardown analysis can determine Tesla's costs. Period.

Staged photo. No rear droop due to tongue weight..

Raising prices does not guarantee profitability. In between price and profitability is the ability to make a sale. Tricky business.

About time the diff is cooled.

Lots of cars can charge at once. But all charging stations are limited to the size of the electrical service (physical limitation) and peak demand charges which incentivize designers to limit instant capacity. Electricity is like water. open more sprinklers and the pressure to each unit is reduced. Sure, you can prioritize units by design. And providers will charge for that priority.

And I disagree that most people will charge at home. What about apartment dwellers? People that own homes without service capacity to support additional load? Travelers? People who need to charge at their destination to return home?

 

i believe that eventually, there will be chargers virtually everywhere. i can't give a date though

tesla will have the advantage with their proprietary network. they are so far ahead, it will be more difficult for other companies to catch up to the charging network than it will be to catch up to making bev's.

 

it's called air suspension. 5 setting levels .... here's another "fake" one too. Lots of them on YouTube - where they actually/apparently photoshopped video as well.


but don't let that stop the nay-saying.
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I agree. But speed of fueling and cost are the variables that must be considered. It is hard to beat petrol for both features. And really, what readily available source of fuel out performs gasoline in terms of energy per density. A lithium-ion battery pack has about 0.3 MJ/kg and about 0.4 MJ/liter (using a Chevy VOLT for comparison -- Prius is similar). Gasoline thus has about 100 times the energy density of a lithium-ion battery. Like I have stated before, battery propulsion tech is lame.

 

Look over time. I expect the happiest early adopters to be those charging exclusively at home. Once we eventually gain the capability to charge at 50-60 miles per minute, you'll see eager adoption by those who depend on public charging. It's going to take quite a while to make these things work for every situation.

 

and i agree that for most people, you can't beat gasoline right now. but to me, ev's are the future, as far as those things go, and we will slowly see a shift in all things electrical, from solar/wind, all the way through the grid down to charging times

i wouldn't classify it as lame though, there's already a huge market of people who don't travel far enough to need a gasser and can fill up at home overnight. they just don't know it yet. we just need more ev choices and better pricing. not that far away.