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Was Little Ice Age caused by mass extermination of Native Americans?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by fuzzy1, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    This seems likely to be a controversial hypothesis, needing a lot more exploration before it might be firmly established:

    "When Europeans arrived in the Americas, they caused so much death and disease that it changed the global climate, a new study finds.

    European settlers killed 56 million indigenous people over about 100 years in South, Central and North America, causing large swaths of farmland to be abandoned and reforested, researchers at University College London, or UCL, estimate. The increase in trees and vegetation across an area the size of France resulted in a massive decrease in carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere, according to the study. "

    European slaughter of Native Americans changed the climate, study says - CNN


    ScienceDirect! Earth system impacts of the European arrival and Great Dying in the Americas after 1492

    Similar to what I've heard elsewhere, the latter indicates that epidemics from imported European diseases removed about 90% of the indigenous population.
     
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  2. George W

    George W Active Member

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    Was there an ice age when Columbus infected millions of Indians (1492)?
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I read that also. The 56 million estimate is unlikely to be improved by future research. Forest regrowth could be, by way of lake sediment pollen studies not yet done.

    Drop of [CO2] estimated as 5 ppm by Koch et al. is not much. Contemporaneous lower solar forcing was about as long as large as it ever might be. There was also large 'forcing' then from volcanoes.

    'War to win' thinking about earth sensitivity to [CO2] will not be much altered by this.
     
  4. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Yes, it was the lack of immunity of Native Americans to European diseases like smallpox that decimated their populations. By the time that the Pilgrims landed in Plymouth, the population was so reduced that Massasoit welcomed them as allies against other tribes with open arms.

    In exchange, the Native Americans introduced the Europeans to syphilis, which was previously unknown in Europe.
     
  5. George W

    George W Active Member

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    The Dinosaurs went extinct during an ice age. Amber samples containing air molecules from their time had oxygen levels 3 time higher than what we have today. could this be why they are 3 times larger than modern land animals? It didn't have to be a meteor from space that caused their extinction, it just could have been that higher O2 levels from prehistoric plant life triggered it as a self-balancing cycle
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    George W: yes, we are talking about the same thing.

    Do not give C. Columbus more than his due. Not millions. Many decades were required for his successors to get things ramped up.
     
  7. George W

    George W Active Member

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    What about Cortez and the Meso-American population?
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    That wasn't a very even exchange.
     
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  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    George W: now we are talkin'. Columbus cut a narrow swath, but showed this thing could be done. 20 years later, Cortez came with much more capability and cut a wider swath. But even that was but a prelude. Europe began then, and did more later on gold/silver. Then trees. Then peculiar agriculture with African slaves looped in.

    It was, overall, perhaps the largest far-distant resource transfers people ever have done. Dead don't tell their tales, and 56 millions would not seem a full accounting.

    People expand over others for self benefit. This all happened with some sort of ecclesiastical blessing. This does not impel me to think that Church has the goods on how people ought to interact with other people.

    ==
    Things are very different now with 7.6 billions, and we may be at a loss to say how people ought to interact. Very important question! What prior guidance is useful?
     
  10. George W

    George W Active Member

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    IF you are saying that these things were done under the influence of the Church, I would agree. I think its many used the Church as an excuse to cover one's true responsibility
     
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  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Catholic Church (western branch) invigorated early harvesting of America resources by part of Europe.. That harvest later became more complex.
     
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Georgina@4, smallpox figured large in E->A disease transfers and I am just now lazy to talk about others at that time. I had thought before that A->E syphilis transfer was uncertain, but did not find anything to oppose your position.

    ==
    Cheerful people describe those exchanges more in terms of food plants than deathly diseases. They may have a point.
     
  13. George W

    George W Active Member

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    did Henry the 8th die of an American disease?
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    He was a vast lout and with gout. Syphilis might have hastened his demise. Something might be learned from opening his burial vault.

    Or not.
     
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    The Ice Age lists I see don't show anything in that timeframe. One major series very recently (~2.5MYa ago until nearly yesterday), four major eras long long before, ending 260MYa ago.

    Were there some minor ice ages ~65Mya ago not on these lists?
     
  16. George W

    George W Active Member

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    The large meteor crater they discovered, supposedly enough earth expulsed into the air, blocking the sun, and plummeting the planet into the nuclear winter that set about the extinction 60 ish million years ago? However, if the CO2 theory has merit, it could have been that overly excessive O2 levels might have contributed more.
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    K–Pg extinction happened during a warm time, and within that a few low-solar-input decades may have happened. What exactly is being disputed here?
     
  18. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    That would be attributed to the major impact, not to an ice age era from another cause.

    And the impact would have caused a major baking first, fire and brimstone, before the subsequent chill.
     
  19. George W

    George W Active Member

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    Nature proves over and over that it is able to survive extreme conditions. I can believe that the high oxygen levels were pushing the pendulum towards a major shift. So much so that it would not have taken a great cataclysm to set off a global trigger
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    One history of atmospheric oxygen is here:

    https://www.nap.edu/openbook/0309100615/gifmid/30.gif

    If there is interest in more detail during late dinosaur times, leading up to 65 million years ago, I'm sure something could be found.

    ==
    There are some very detailed, I'd say lurid, descriptions of weeks after Chicxulub impact. They are informed speculation; not amenable to testing by accessible evidence. But they do make for interesting reading.