Featured Toyota Is Losing the Electric Car Race, So It Pretends Hybrids Are Better

It occurs to me: my wife and I are good candidates for an electric car. Virtually all our driving is in-town, 50 mile round-trip at most, and we've got a house with garage. And we're only driving 300~400 miles monthly.

But right now, with just a hybrid, our gas costs are maybe $30 CDN a month, at most. And I don't relish the added complexity.

 

You are doing less harm to environment by continuing to use the car for which the footprint has already been made and not creating demand for a product with a fresh footprint. Buy used, save the Earth!

 

we are as well, it's just the once a year road trip that's currently preventing us. and the lack of available bev models.

when everyone is making them in different variations and they are sitting on the lots waiting to be purchased, more people will buy them.

 

A) You are never there more than a few minutes, how would you know?
B) Leaving the car while pumping is illegal in our state (MN).

 

yeah, i've never left the car while fueling, but i figured kansas might be different

 

For me, electric car road trips are far superior to gas.
I do agree with you about the quality of food at gas stations/rest stops. Which is one of the reasons I like charging rather than pumping.
When I stop to charge, it is typically at a decent restaurant.

 

I just got an notification from CarGurus on used LEAF. It was 2013 LEAF, but no price was listed yet. Contact the seller, and quick response from a reputable Nissan dealer in our area. BUT, the price tag of $10K for a BEV that gets less than 40 miles of range in the winter here is crazy.

 

less than 40, what's wrong with it?

 

1Gen LEAF has only 84 miles range to begin with when NEW. After 6 years of battery degradation and during cold of winter, I read most of those car loose more than 50% of original range.

 

ouch!

too me, that's almost worthless.

 

For most people yes, it is worthless, but for very few it maybe workable solution. Yeah, if that was priced $3K, I might have considered it for just in town use. lol

 

i would certainly have to double check the range before buying, that is horrible, more like a nev, which i think would be a lot less money.

talk about range anxiety

 

If it lost 30% of range due to degradation, Nissan will replace the battery.
Under the worst winter conditions, you may loose 50% range, but not on most days, and unlikely ever on the east coast.

That said, winter is an important consideration as you will loose some range. If the range loss doesn't allow the car to meet your needs, definitely don't buy the car. I know a number of Leaf owners in Minnesota why are quite happy with the range. But only because it meets all their needs for that car.

 

"Most cars that were there when I got there are gone before I leave."

Never been to your state, but we rotate on bathroom breaks anyway so someone is always with the car.

 

Seriously, Leaf + winter beater would be a great combo for many in the northeast.

17mpg in an older Cherokee or Avalanche is fine when you only do it on the worst 30 days out of the year.

Huge amounts of money get spent and lots of goals are missed when you try to "get it all" out of one car.

 

As I said, if it was priced right, I can live with 40 miles range BEV as an in-town use only second car. But somehow, the dealer is pricing it with the same used car formula as hybrid or gas cars.

 

Most of those Supercharger stations are along highways; the rest appear to be just a block away.
Tesla is planning lower speed chargers for local use. Those might also show up the Supercharger map.

Over 4 million people live in Los Angeles. The county has over 800 gas stations, that aren't evenly distributed across the area.

Neither were the Impala, CT6, and Lesabre. Even if the Volt had been selling well for a plug in, that alone couldn't support keeping the factory running. Perhaps GM would have been willing to move its production if it was doing better, but sedans aren't doing well; the Cruze was also cancelled in the same announcement, and its sales might equal the CT6, Impala, Lesabre, and Volt combined. I know the Volt is hatchback, but it looks like a sedan.

My point is that outsiders, and likely many insiders, can say why the Volt was cancelled, and not knowing the why means we can't call the model itself a success or failure.

The Buick Velite 5 and 6 in China use the Volt drivetrain. It's China, so we can't say whether another PHEV based on the Volt's technology will make it to market here. It is safe to say that it is more likely than a personal vehicle using two-mode. GM seems to be switching to BEVs though.

They had to have used the Amtrack auto train. No other way.

It's also illegal in Pa., Va., and NC.
And some travel alone.

There is a tipping point when continuing to use old leads to more harm than switching to new.

 

That load of rubbish isn't fooling anyone. We all knew the goal of Volt long before it was even rolled out. By the end of year-2, sales were expected to reach 60,000. For year-3, production capacity would be capable of delivering 120,000 annually.

That failed to such a degree, GM scrambled to revive the struggling effort by slashing prices. It didn't work. Focus shifted to what the second-generation could deliver instead. That turned out to be even more of a sales disappointment.

Cancelling a product mid-cycle, without any successor, is the epitome of "over promise, under deliver" ...something we know GM all too well for. Had a Trax or Equinox been rolled out using Voltec, that would have been a different story. But all we see now is a tree will all the low-hanging fruit picked and an automaker not interested in climbing.

 

Exactly. Plug-ins say in a mix of 55% long range BEV (200+ miles EV), 35% PHEV (prime, outlander, byd (qin and song), and clarity are leaders world wide), and 10% shorter range bev (like the non plus leaf) will likely get at least 80% of miles from L2 either at home, office, or less expensive public chargers. There needs to be a great many L2 chargers, but only around 20% of the miles would need to be from quick chargers (L3 50 kw-350 kw today). I would estimate if 10% of the cars were plug-in and the L3 chargers super charger v3 (250 KW) and combo plug 800V (350 KW) we would need around 15,000 of these in the US for the approximately 30 Million plug-ins. The v3 will charge a model 3 over 200 miles in 20 minutes. Tesla is upgrading their 1441 north america super charging stations to allow of this fast rate, so we are about 10% toward this type of infrastructure (note the current chargers are slower so if they weren't upgraded we would need more) or enough to allow around 2 M plug-ins. There is time to build out as 1 Million was past just last year, but we will be over 2 M in 2021. Tesla slowed the roll out to figure out better tech for the superchargers, and it appears only the model 3 battery system can take advantage today. The Porsche Taycan due next year will be able to charge even faster. IMHO it will be anouther 5 years to stabalize the L3 charging network in the US, and hopefully chargers will come with 2 plugs, or there will be adapters on hand. When we get to 10 Million cars about 3% of installed base battery swap may be a viable technology.

Hey not having enough money for a reliable car sucks, but most people in this world do not. IMHO and based on union of concerned scientist report about 40% of people in the US have access to L2 type charging or could add it easily. If we get to 20% of light vehicles (60 million) in the US that are plug-in in the next 15 years that will put a major dent in liquid fuel consumption. China and Norway are moving much faster than the US.


I expect in the next 7 years tech will shake out and something like a 200+ mile bev with charging of 120 miles in 10 minutes may become the standard L3 chargers are built to support. VW and Tesla and various governments are working hard to figure out how to make installing these chargers less expensive. Japan already has an extensive network of L3 chargers but they are slow 50 KW versus 250 KW on the newly rolled out v3 of the supercharger and 350 KW for combo plug. Perhaps they can be upgraded.

 

I would say you are a bad candidate actually to get one today. At less than 5000 miles a year and with a perfectly good car that you enjoy, there is no reason to get a bev right now. Technology is changing fast so a used one isn't a great idea, and you don't live in a place like my state where cars coming off leases in california are dumped at a low cost. A BEV actually is less complex than a hybrid, and should require less maintenance, but toyota has been making the same type of cars for decades and tesla is still learning. I expect in 4 or 5 years when your hybrid is ready to be sold you'll be able to get a great bev.