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Is OEM the only solution?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by ronlewis, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    I replaced a cell in the HV battery for Car 1 and still have the 3030 code. The service procedure is to check the harness for damage, then continuity test, then replace ECU. I didn't spot damage, but corrosion and several weakened sensor connectors, but none snapped or cracked that I can see. Scrubbed the bus bars a bit. But, I'm not confident that I'd be able to test those small wires accurately.

    I could yank the batteries out of my parts cars and see what their harnesses are like, but I can imagine they're much better, especially the one I know was completely submerged.

    Anyway, I figure I'll just buy a new harness and eliminate that issue. Worst case, I got a new harness. So my question...I haven't seen any aftermaket specials on a quick Google. Plenty for the Gen 2 but none for Gen 1s. Am I just at the stealership's mercy? Is they any dealers that discount and free ship?
     
    #1 ronlewis, Aug 13, 2019
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    have you tried camelback and olathe?
     
    #2 bisco, Aug 13, 2019
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  3. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    no, thanks. I'll check them out.
     
    #3 ronlewis, Aug 13, 2019
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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I don't remember the harness being very expensive.
     
    #4 ChapmanF, Aug 13, 2019
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  5. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    OK, I got an answer from Camelback and a local dealer, both around $200. Then found McGeorge Toyotal out of Virginia that had it, they say, for $132. It was a pain trying to find an exact part number; I hope I get the right part.
     
    #5 ronlewis, Aug 14, 2019
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Try AutoNation Toyota Gulf Freeway in Houston.
     
    #6 Patrick Wong, Aug 15, 2019
  7. mroberds

    mroberds Member

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    I know I'm necroposting a little bit, but here goes.

    When I swapped the factory battery, I ordered the busbar modules, because I wasn't sure if they came with the new battery or not. They did, so I ended up with spares. These are the orange plastic things with the ~1 inch (25 mm) long copper busbars clipped into them. The back side of the battery has two short ones, and the front side has one long one. The long one also has the sense wires and the big orange connector that plugs into the battery ECU.

    Per the stickers on mine, the short ones are 82670-47070, "BUSBAR MODURE" (sic) - you need two of those. The long one is 82165-47030, "WIRE, FRAME, NO. 2" - you need one of those.

    Olathe Toyota currently (mid-September, 2019) sells the short ones for $29.12 each and the long one for $138.67, making the total about $197. Shipping to Dallas is estimated at $16.
     
    #7 mroberds, Sep 14, 2019
  8. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    I bought the long one with the sensor wires. I can't see any reason why the short ones could be bad. They're essentially just holders for the buss bars plates to, I assume, make it easy to line them all up quickly. I'd think you could remove the orange plastic completely and the battery would still work.

    Yet, I'm still getting a 3030 code on that battery. I assumed it must be the battery ECU, but after talking to a local hybrid battery shop, a bad ECU throws a 3000 code, not the 3030, so I don't know what to try next. I've ordered a MiniVCI cable and will see what the battery modules look like with the battery installed. I tested each one while I had it apart and they were all good except one. So I swapped in a good one from the core I was returning on my other car.

    I wonder if that module I swapped in is throwing the code? It measured, IIRC, a little lower voltage that the rest of the pack, but enough to still be good. How long would it take for the car to charge it up to balance with the others? I drove it about 5 miles after reinstalling the battery before it threw a code for the inverter pump. I ordered a new one of those and should get it installed over the weekend. Then, I'll drive it again, a bit longer, and see if I can get the code to turn off.
     
    #8 ronlewis, Sep 14, 2019
  9. mroberds

    mroberds Member

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    The "fortune cookie"™* for P3030 is one of my favorite turns of phrase in the factory manual. "Battery Voltage Detective line Snapped". It means that the battery ECU thinks that one of the 20 little wires between the module studs and the battery ECU is open circuit.

    It could be the square "ring" terminal on the end of the little wire, it could be the little wire broken inside the insulation, it could be the terminal on the little wire beat up or backed out of the big female connector with all the wires, it could be the pin on the big male connector on the battery ECU has snapped off, it could be a bad solder joint from the connector pin to the battery ECU circuit board, it could be an open trace on the battery ECU circuit board, it could be an open or shorted component on the battery ECU circuit board, it could be a bum A/D converter on the battery ECU circuit board. (I don't know if it's even possible to open up the battery ECU, but I wouldn't do it until I was really sure that the harness was OK.)

    The Mini-VCI and Techstream should show you what it thinks the voltage of every pair of modules is. If one of the detective lines really is snapped, I'm pretty sure you would be missing at least one of these voltage readings, and possibly two of them. Page DI-341 on Volume 1 of the 2001 manual will let you translate "module pairs 1-19" on your Techstream screen to detective line wire colors. Or, Engine/Hybrid System > Diagnostics > HV Battery Control System > P3030 on techinfo.toyota.com .

    I don't think the one module you swapped is causing the code, UNLESS you didn't get the square "ring" terminal for that module, or the square "ring" terminal on either side of the one you replaced, reconnected correctly.

    I'm not sure how long it takes the modules to equalize. I think there's a way, with Techstream, that you can tell the car to do a special charge cycle to help that situation, but I've never done it myself.

    If I was going to shade-tree that job, I'd find a big empty parking lot on a nice day, turn off the lights, heater, A/C, radio, everything, and drive around gently at 12 mph or less, until the HV battery is down to one green bar on the bottom of the display, OR the engine wants to run all the time, even if I'm driving real slow or parked. Once that's happening, I would then head for somewhere I could do a steady 40-50 mph for a while, and drive until the HV battery is charged back up (per the display). Then look at the module voltages again and evaluate. This may not be the right procedure, though.

    * "Fortune cookie" as an OBD-II code description is a trademark of ChapmanF. :)
     
    #9 mroberds, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  10. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    thank you, sir. I'm hoping, since that long buss bar with sensor wires is brand new, that it isn't any of those. I also stated incorrectly - one of the original modules wasn't bad, as in low voltage, the nut holding the buss bar plate to it stripped and wouldn't tighten down or come back off. I had to grind it off just to be able to remove the BB plate and pull it out of the pack. I had hoped that nut was the cause of the 3030, although the first time I went through the pack checking torque on those nuts, it didn't break lose. A second pass was when it broke/stripped and kept spinning. I think it might have just been me over tightening it.

    Anyway, I'm electronics-ignorant, but you've done a great job describing a test I can perform. I've ordered the cable, but I've not downloaded TIS from somewhere or attempted to install it. I still need to find an XP laptop to put it on.

    From your post, it doesn't sound like the 3030 could be as simple as an unbalanced module. Dang, my luck. And the new buss bar elimimantes all of the sensor wires. Kinda sounds like it might be the ECU, either internal or the external connections. I'd wondered in another post whether there was any way to test a replacement before buying/installing. I expect Toyota wants too much for a new one, so as I think about buying one from a dismantler, or pulling one from the batteries in my two parts cars, I'm afraid that all go to all the work to remove/replace and the code is still there - which won't tell me whether it's not the ECU because I won't know if the replacement is any good either.

    That leaves pulling a known good one out of one of my other cars and swapping it in just to confirm that it is the ECU. - What a PITA.

    So, first things first - inverter, then drive around to hopefully balance, then TIS laptop to confirm balance (that order is based on when I'll have the parts and cable), then your drive test.
     
    #10 ronlewis, Sep 14, 2019
  11. mroberds

    mroberds Member

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    The original spec on those nuts was 53 pound inches, IIRC. Toyota later officially backed it off to 48 pound inches, I think.

    I actually bought an inch-pound torque wrench just to work on my battery pack; for $1,800 I didn't want to futz it up. :)

    Check your local Craigslist. Even if you don't immediately find an XP laptop, you may find the "old computers" store in your area, and can ask them; they probably have older machines than what they advertise. I've also heard that 32-bit Vista or 7 are also OK, but I haven't personally tried those. 64-bit may work but is said to require more futzing around with the Mini-VCI drivers - again, no personal experience.

    For XP and Vista, it's probably simplest to get a computer that has an XP or Vista license code sticker on the case somewhere, if you can; mortals can't buy new licenses of those in small quantities from Microsoft anymore. You can still get a Win7 license, but that's a limited time offer. (It expires around the end of 2019, unless enough huge companies lean on Microsoft to extend the Win7 sunset. That happened to XP a couple of times.) Probably nobody actually cares about this anymore, but having a valid license keeps the OS from suddenly deciding you're a filthy pirate and logging you out in the middle of a Techstream session.

    If you're shopping at the "old computers" store, the laptop should come with a 120 V charger. Most of those are probably on the order of 60 to 90 W output, so you should be able to use a little 12 V - 120 V inverter to run them from the cigarette lighter socket in the Prius (120 W). It's probably worth at least asking at the store if they also have a 12 V charger for your laptop for cheap money. I wouldn't pay more than about $20 for one, though. (The battery on an XP-era laptop will probably last less than 30 minutes at this point, which is why you have to think about chargers.)

    If you installed the new bus bar assembly the same way you installed the old one... and you squished one of the detective lines when you put the harness in place or put the cover on, the same way you installed the old one... maybe it doesn't eliminate it. :D :D

    In theory, you could build a test rig for one. In practice, it's probably cheaper to buy a Gen1 with too much body damage to economically repair, but good electronics, so you can use it as a test bed.

    89890-47060, "Control Module". A steal at only $1,214 from Olathe Toyota. :)
     
    #11 mroberds, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  12. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    The service manual is pretty simple for this code. It is a voltage detection problem for sure. I guess it could be a fault in the ECU, but the diagnostic tree does not go there, it is not even mentioned.

    I would check the work. May be the way it was assembled was incorrect and if you just reassemble it the same way then it is still incorrect. I guess you need to have an experienced eye cast over the assembly to be able to pick that up.

    The service manual states:

    DTC 3030 Battery Voltage Detective line Snapped

    DTC Detecting Condition: Open in battery voltage detective line

    Trouble Areas:
    • Open in battery voltage detective line
    • Connector
    • Busbar module
    There is a wiring diagram which I will attach with the complete diagnostic tree.

    The 3rd step is to Check busbar module, where is says Check the tightening of the nuts of the busbar modules before and behind the battery block which voltage is 2 V or less.

    That is pretty much it.
     

    Attached Files:

    #12 dolj, Sep 14, 2019
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