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The Little Engine That Barely Even Tried

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Landon51, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    Welp, this is the story of a little sewing machine of an engine that may be quickly committing sepukul out of shame for quitting so easily.

    A couple nights ago i was coming back from LA with friends and their luggage. It was a fairly quick trip right up until we got past Coalinga. I think the smell got to #4 cylinder because it started misfiring.

    The misfire was only at speeds above 70 or when i pushed the engine heavily. I didn't do those things on the last legs of the trip and it was uneventful.

    As soon as i offloaded my friends. I noted that i was getting a constant misfire (i had turned the engine off while we unloaded). I was in San Ramon and spent the night in the Lucky parking lot cause i was tired.

    Nextt afternoon (or early evening), the police woke me up because someone called in a report that someone had been sleeping they're all day (or so i assume). I got there about 1030 and left about 6.

    I replaced the MAG sensor since i had one just laying around. All symptoms went away. Yay, for me. I met a friend in sf and brought him towards Hayward. On the way back, my engine began the following:

    While driving towards Hayward the engine now stuttered when i gave it light gas. If i stomped on the accelerator, things seemed fine. If i didn't, the car seemed to want to play the hokey pokey. I had to turn the car off at each light because it did not like standing still with load on the engine. It would do a lot better if i put it in neutral and rev the engine.

    On the way back, i would step at heavily as i had to to keep the engine running smooth. The first attachment are the dtc's i had when i got back.

    I took the following steps:
    1. I removed the spark plugs and switched 4 and 3 (I'm numbering based on the piston firing order, 1 3 4 2).

    Look at the pics - I'm aghast at plug #2.

    The first few pics assuming they upload in orde, Are from cylinder #2. Those are the cylinder, coil, coil body. Spark plugs and then comparison shots.
    #2 was incredibly gritty. To the point that i had to clean my gloves before i could handle the other Sparks.

    1 They all appear to be fouled. I don't think i should put any of f them back in the car. Do you agree?

    Bte,v these Sparks have fewer than 30k miles on them. They all had burned on carbon and oil somewhere on them.

    #2 coil seems to have had massive blow by. That spark want in as tight as the other ones. I put that coil and spark back into #2.

    2 and, 3 Sparks were switched. Suddenly both this cylinders are misfiring.

    2. Is that telling me that both the coil and the spark plugs are bad?

    The EGR dtc is brand spanking new. I haven't fully researched the newest dtcs yet.

    3. Is this engine dead?

    4. Should i stop trying to fix it and start reading up on how to replace it?

    I'm going to swap 2 and 3 again and see what happens


    Checked out my new dtcs.


    View attachment 10_DTC_29092019043935PM.txt View attachment 9_DTC_30092019013119PM.txt IMG_20190930_122442755.jpeg IMG_20190930_122551020.jpeg IMG_20190930_122946451.jpeg IMG_20190930_124025021_HDR.jpeg IMG_20190930_124212586_HDR.jpeg IMG_20190930_124246881_HDR.jpeg IMG_20190930_123841099.jpeg

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  2. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    Oh. I let friend borrow the car for two days camping. When it got back and isaw that there was no oil on the dipstick. I refilled and drove to la and back. Just had the normal oil drinking that i expected.

    He says that he had the oil changed for me. It seems that they didn't put enough back in. He didn't get it done at a shop. Some guys who had some extra oil did it for him for $20.

    I asked if they offered to re pave his driveway as well. He didn't think that was funny.

    O. M. G.

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  3. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Please fix the attachments, none are rendering for some reason. Or just post the DTCs.

    How many miles are on the engine again?

    Were those plugs purchased locally from a brick and mortar location, or online?
     
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  4. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Why not just install new spark plugs. If all you want to do is see if your problems clear up, then just install some normal Champions or Autolites or something for a buck each. You don't have to use iridium. And yes, torque them so the crush gasket actually crushes. A loose plug will let all kinds of junk pass by the threads and sometimes make the engine run like crap.

    The answer is staring you in the face. It's bad plug (s).

    And there is no EGR on a Gen 2. Your code reader is off a bit.

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,2007,prius,1.5l+l4+electric/gas,1434449,ignition,spark+plug,7212
     
  5. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    SFO: 225,000ish miles.

    I'm not having trouble w the attachments i can see pics and read the text files. The text files massage not render in a browser. I have to open them in Text editor.

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  6. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    [QUOTE="TMR-JWAP,

    If all you want to do is see if your problems clear up, then just install some normal Champions or Autolites or something for a buck each. You don't have to use iridium. And yes, torque them so the crush gasket actually crushes.

    And there is no EGR on a Gen 2. Your code reader is off a bit.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Trying it tonight.

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  7. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    Maybe change the oil and filter as well, unknown what oil was put in there but it sounds like the engine doesn't like it and it is running either past the oil control rings or down the valve guides.
    If the engine was run without or with very little oil, quite possible the bearing have been chewed out and that is causing excess oil splash on the cyl walls and the rings just can't cope with the excess oil.

    T1 Terry
     
  8. dig4dirt

    dig4dirt MoonGlow

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    Maybe they put veg oil in there or heck pissed in it.

    I am not a violent person, but i would be whooping *ss if "they" decided to change my oil.
    However, i would never just lend out my car for two days either.

    +1 on the oil and filter and spark plug change.
    And check around for anything else that may have been swapped.
     
  9. frankv64

    frankv64 Junior Member

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    Like others said change oil/filter and spark plugs so you weed out the simple stuff first and only lend your car out for sexual favors


    iPhone ? Pro
     
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  10. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    They used what was left of my oil. About 2 quarts.
     
  11. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    Hi everyone. I'm using an ODBLink MX TO SCAN FOR CODES. I've updated to the latest firmware

    So, I've changed the MAF and Sparks champion i think). I've got the oil but no place to change it. I'll figure it out.

    When i changed the maf, everything went great. I was loving the car again. 27ish miles later. It starts sputtering.

    Changed the Sparks. Same thing. 30+ . Milesand it's Sputter City. Shoot, phone dying.
    [Edits]
    I was reading and it seems that i could be getting misfires from a too lean condition.

    My first O2 sensor seems to have quit working. The second one is high along with the temp sensor might have caused the car to go lean on the fuel too much.

    I have to test the O2 sensor to see if it's actually in need of replacement. ( I'll read up and figure that out).

    What else can i do? I'm going to re check the speaks to make sure they're ok. Check the oil as well again.
     
    #11 Landon51, Oct 3, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  12. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    My high mileage Prius suffered a blocked cat as well as a blocked fuel filter and that caused all sorts of issues. The Australian version of the Prius has a removable fuel filter so that was easy and I had an after market cat fitted. Went like a new(er) car than it did when I bought it and still going well, no more staggering if I accelerated hard or strange knocking/rattling noises that I thought was timing chain, it wasthe spring loaded engine pipe releasing pressure and then banging back into place.
    I think the blocked fuel filter caused a lean fuel mix and that caused the carbon to burn out of the combustion changers and manifold and this blocked the cat.

    T1 Terry
     
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  13. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    Wow, i think mine is something More usual.

    Here's what I've found. I re-installed old spark plugs. It ran like it used to for 30 ish minutes. Then i lost fire in a cylinder - the engine was shaking and unbalanced at low rpm and ran better at high rpm.

    At the suggestion on someone above i got and installed new plugs. The car ran perfectly for almost 45 minutes before it started missing on cylinder 4 and randomly on the others.

    I limped home. Cleaned the new Sparks and the above repeated.

    I'm certain that i can clean and re-install them to my heart's content ... And I'll v get 30-45 minutes before #4 misfires.

    All my new spark plugs had black inner rings surrounding the the electrodes. The threads were covered with oil when i removed them ... Clean oil i should say. Except for the 4th cylinder on the right. The pill was black, filthy covered with thick, black, oilly, muddish filth. It was just ... Yuck.


    Is this a known thing? This 4th piston getting so completely gunked that it can't fire?

    One more piece of info. If i add propane to the air intake. The engine smooths out and and runs fine. Its getting gas and could be just be firing at an inopportune time.

    My sir/fuel ratio sensor is putting out no reading at all. It seems to be plugged in but it's probably why i threw a P0420 for the past 6 months.

    I really don't know what to do. The electrical and to work fine. The ICE definitely needs fixing if not replacing.

    Should i install the new air fuel sensor or send it back (so i can buy food -cause in hungry)?

    Is a 250k mile car w at least 1 bad spark plug oil seal worth fixing?

    Is the car dead, and i just don't know it yet?

    Or, is it bouncy and full of life and i need to pull my head out because i just can't see it?

    Should i part it and find something else?

    My thinking really isn't clear here.

    Hayward, CA




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  14. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    What OBD2 codes have you retrieved lately?

    Have you tried swapping the #4 coil with another coil in the engine and see if the miss follows?
     
  15. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    I'm currently getting
    P0420
    P0304 Cylinder 4 misfire detected

    I'm supposed to drive someone to LA today. Wonder if we will make it?

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  16. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    Are you sure it isn't a tappet cover leak and oil is running into the no4 spark plug well eventually filling it far enough to earth out the coil causing a mis-fire? By removing the spark plug you are just draining the oil into the cyl, then it refills within 30 mins or engine run time. Try just taking the plug out, wait 10 mins and then put it back in, do you get another 30 mins run time? Try washing the coil cover inside and out with degreaser or carby cleaner or even brake clean, to get the built up rubbish out of it so it can't carbon track the spark down the side of the plug cover and into the collected oil. You could try just nipping up the tappet cover bolts, but don't be too heavy handed, they are only little bolts

    T1 Terry
    .
     
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  17. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    Man, i wanted this to work but, alas, no.

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  18. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    I was getting cylinder #4 and the 4th cylinder mixed up, I guess.

    I re tried the easy swap of could for 3 and 4. The misfire stayed at the same place, #4 in the firing order ( 3rd cylinder).

    The spark plug are new copper Champions or something like that.

    I'm also getting a P0053 along with a blank reading on the air/fuel mixture sensor (front O2 sensor).

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  19. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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    And, last but not least,P3190. I cleared it twice, and twice it popped right up.

    I think this is a fuel pump failure and the fuel pump is located inside the fuel tank which (the tank) now needs to be replaced.

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  20. Landon51

    Landon51 Member

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