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Featured Options to generic public chargers

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Trollbait, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Powering ahead: six new ways to charge an electric car | Money | The Guardian
    Couple of interesting things there.

    The first is the installation of street lamp post chargers in the UK. There, the electric supply to a lamp could mean up to 24 amps available for a charger.

    The second is the company, Connected Kerb. They are making low profile public chargers for street side charging with cute animal names. The interesting part concerns discussions here about income streams for charger companies.
    "These bits of kit are designed to have a low visual impact, and are fitted with sensors and gauges that mean they can also provide local authorities with real-time data on traffic, weather and air conditions. In addition, they act as ultra-fast wifi points."

    Which leads to UK and German cable/media/internet companies making use of their existing cabling conduits to install chargers at their service cabinets.
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    One of the nearby cities are installing street lamp chargers... funny enough, it’s in a parking lot, rather than curbside. Still works. They used clipper creek units.
     
  3. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

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    Definitely interesting ideas. However, I feel the US still has quite a bit of room to just mass install charging stations in parking lots. Except in very dense urban areas, parking is pretty ubiquitous either at people's home or at their work. Its likely we can get 75%+ coverage with just parking lot charging stations.
     
  4. Ronald Doles

    Ronald Doles Active Member

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    I had a test at Riverside Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. As I drove up to the second level of their parking deck, one whole side was marked "Electric Vehicle Only". Most of the spaces were filled with Tesla's, Toyota's, Chevy's, Hyundai, Kia etc.

    Times, they are a changing!
     
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  5. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

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    The only downside is that Ohio's electricity grid is still roughly 40% coal: Ohio - State Energy Profile Overview - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

    At that level, BEVs should still beat gassers in environmental performance. However, its a close call.
     
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Compare Side-by-Side


    Even in ohio (you can plug the numbers)
    The tesla model 3 standard plus is 150 grams of co2
    The prius prime is 180 grams of co2 while the really good

    Toyota camry hybrid is 234 grams of co2.

    The bev and phev are likely to get better as time goes on and home owners can charge mostly on solar (that is what I do - 100% at home, 70% on public chargers) making the numbers much lower. The more popular non hybrid camry is 317 g co2/mi more than double the tesla on the ohio grid. Its not low enough to trade in a prius, but something to consider for the next car.
     
  7. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

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    The Fueleconomy.gov comparison is a bit incomplete (it only includes the tailpipe CO2 + CO2 from upstream production of the electricity/gasoline). Including the full life cycle of BEV vs Gasser does narrow the BEV CO2 advantage a bit. From this study: https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/TE%20-%20draft%20report%20v04.pdf

    [​IMG]

    On the high end, a BEV using coal-fired electricity is likely worst than a gasser. My rough estimate from the above graph, a BEV powered by <80% coal electricity should probably be better than an equivalent gasser. However, I would probably not charge my Prime in any state with >50% coal powered electricity just to be safe.
     
  8. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Again, I was using real figures for Ohio grid with real vehicles although these are EPA estimates and YMMV :). Most people have been using the figure that a bev will take 1 metric ton of co2 more than a similar ice vehicle to manufacture, but that depends on how you manufacture, and the tesla figures I've seen from 2017 actually produced less co2 to manufacture and fuel (included energy in super charger network but not the energy to build them) in its network than a typical ice vehicle and that was for the model S and X. The model 3 is lower.

    Since you used ohio as an example that is higher than the national average and a prime in ohio will produce 180 grams of co2/mile about the same as West Virginia which is 92% coal + some renewable on a combination of gas and electricity. That is lower than the prius's 207 g/mile so go a head run it all over the country. Now if it really does take a metric ton of co2 to build the prime versus the prius (I doubt it) then it would take just 37,000 miles using the epa's mix to make up the co2 in production.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The graph you posted is for WTW, not lifecycle; the same value as Fueleconomy.gov vehicle with upstream fuel production emission..
    Converted, the worse case coal produced electricity is 282g/mile of CO2. Worse than a Camry hybrid, but better than a BMW 330i, Camry, or Corolla.

    Lifecycle emissions are going to depend on what the study picks for the cars' lifespan. Some studies in that review article are as low as 100k kilometers, which is a little over 62k miles. We know BEVs are exceeding that. While the car's production carbon emissions is higher for a BEV. the majority of the emissions for a car comes from running it. On page 9 of the paper, there is a chart comparing lifecycle emissions between a diesel and BEV on EU grid mix for 200k km. Over 90% of the ICE's GHG emissions are from the fuel. Its total emissions are 230% of the BEV's.Even at half the distance, the diesel has surpassed the BEV in emissions.

    Coal is down to 47% of electric production in Ohio.
    https://www.puco.ohio.gov/be-informed/consumer-topics/how-does-ohio-generate-electricity/
     
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  10. Ronald Doles

    Ronald Doles Active Member

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    Our forward thinking legislators in Ohio pushed through Ohio House Bill 6. It would provide $150 million per year between 2021 and 2027 from ratepayers to First Energy Solutions to keep the Perry Nuclear Power plant and Davis-Besse nuclear power plants open. The bill also provides $20 million a year to keep two unprofitable aging coal fired power plants open. Part of the funding would reduce the Ohio Renewable Portfolio Standard initiatives. There was a $1.1 billion dollar natural gas electrical generation plant being built in Ohio that is on hold now because it was expected to replace these 4 facilities to shut down.

    I have mixed feelings about the nuclear plants. They are running well beyond their design life but at least they are low carbon electrical power generation.

    As far as the unprofitable coal plants being subsidized at the expense of a new natural gas plant and reducing the Ohio Renewable Portfolio Standard initiatives, I am at a loss but money talks. First Energy has been one of the state's most prolific political donors.

    Ohio has the most stringent windmill siting regulations of any state.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Is Ohio still not signed on to limiting smokestack height so their air pollution comes down in eastern Pa and NJ?
     
  12. Ronald Doles

    Ronald Doles Active Member

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    With all the pipelines crisscrossing Ohio now it wouldn't surprise me if they are using some of those pipelines to transport that pollution and stack gasses to a smokestack in another state.