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First DIY oil change -- can't undo oil filter housing

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by NewHybridOwner, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That little clip does nothing.

    Maybe get that place to remove it: it was their gorilla that installed it. Torque spec is 18 foot/pounds.

    There should be a way. How are you raising the car, could you raise it a few inches more (safely)? Also, what socket are you using?

    I'm using a Honda oil filter socket (same size, and works for Mazda too, lol): it's heavy stamped steel. Couple that with a 1/2" drive ratcheting wrench with swivel head, the handle roughly 18", no problems for a bantam weight like me.

    Again, I think the main issue is that someone put it on insanely tight, probably with an impact. If you're really stuck I would go back to them. FWIW, when just the oil filter housing is removed you only spill about 200 cc. You could maybe do the oil change only, then head over to them, give them the filter, and insist they torque to 18 foot pounds. Watch them.
     
  2. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    This is the one that I use, It is the official Toyota special service tool. oblique view.JPG
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    ^ Part number is 09288-06500-02?

    Here's the current Honda number, I think: 07AAA-PLCA100. The descriptions sometimes say 65 mm, but it is 64.5'ish, fits snug.

    Good wrench is the Jet 672929-1/2" Dr Flex Head Ratchet Wrench-Heavy Duty. The filter sockets are 3/8" drive, so a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter is needed. Extensions are handy too, say 3" and 6".

    If you get around to the transaxle fluid change, the fill and drain bolts are socket-head cap screw, you'll need a 10 mm Allen-Key type socket. Stanley 7 PC Hex Bit Socket Set (85-708) is readily available.
     
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  4. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    This is the Vise Grip that I used to remove the "stuck on" cap wrench on the swelled up filter cap. cap wrench w ViseGrip.JPG
     
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  5. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Well, if possible, try applying pressure to the wrench handle in the off direction, while doing so make room at the end of the handle. Give it a good few whacks with a hammer....

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yup. Until the O-ring exits the barrel, I find it easiest to just keep wrenching. Not even sure if I could hand-turn it, don't bother trying anymore.
     
  7. Siward

    Siward Active Member

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    I can't think of very many options for you. I used a breaker bar to remove mine on my first ever oil change, but I had a 1/2" drive deep socket with a somewhat no-so-long breaker bar that is about 16". I only needed to lift the car little higher to get the clearance and I knocked it loose with my breaker bar. I use the same 1/2" drive sockets for changing my tires, so it is an investment.

    The other option is what ChapmanF recommended. You can take your car back to any mechanic for one more oil change. Bring your filter along and ask him to change out the filter and to not over-tighten (18 ft-lb). You can ask to charge only labor. I once had a filter stuck for my Hyundai Sonata and I paid a mechanic $20 to change the oil filter without over-tightening. I did every other oil change afterwards as the filter was not stuck.
     
  8. NewHybridOwner

    NewHybridOwner Active Member

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    I can raise the car a little more and put jack stands underneath once I figure out the correct jacking point. In the meantime I'm going to look for a more suitable breaker bar and/or pipe to slip over the 3/8" handle.
     
  9. NewHybridOwner

    NewHybridOwner Active Member

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    I don't see that that one engages with the "lug"/"rib."

    I wrote "lug"/"rib" (singular), but do I see in the picture that there are three adjacent ones? I can see/feel only one on mine -- or are there others on the opposite side that I cannot easily see or get at?
     
    #29 NewHybridOwner, Oct 31, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  10. NewHybridOwner

    NewHybridOwner Active Member

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    That previous place is about 30 miles away. Don't feel like driving back there.

    I see that the repair manual even shows the volume of oil required when the car is drained without removing the filter.
     
    #30 NewHybridOwner, Oct 31, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The "logical" place to put safety stands is at the scissor jack locations. Problem though, the demarked scissor jack locations are just a zone of the rocker panel crimped seam: it has a very narrow bottom edge, and absolutely no extra reinforcing. If you put the scissor jack at that location and start raising it, you'll see it just cups around the crimped seam, touches it laterally, but does not bear on it. The vertical load is taken behind the crimped seam, on the flat body, and it'll dimple in the first time you use the scissor jack.

    For stable/solid support with safety stands, I'd recommend to put the cradles at the front end of the main longitudinal "rails" that run the length of the underbody. Here I've flagged them in red, front and rear jack stand points I prefer:

    upload_2019-10-31_12-34-16.png

    It's really not necessary for an oil filter socket to extend down onto the stiffeners ribs. I think this just complicates fitment.

    Yeah if you remove the drain bolt you'll get around 4.0 liters.
    Remove the drain bolt and oil filter, you get 4.2 liters.
    Remove just the oil filter, you get 0.2 liter.

    I've done maybe 18 oil/filter changes. The only one to do them post-factory is me, and I've always torqued the oil filter housing to 18 ft/lbs. Later removal requires a little oomph, but not bad, mostly due to the aforementioned O-ring (around the filter housing barrel), even when you've oiled the heck out of it.

    As long as you've got decent elbow room, a solid long-handled wrench and a heavy-duty, suitable oil filter socket, you'll get there.

    The first time will be a pain. If it's a real pain: go back to the gorillas that put it on, one last time.
     
    #31 Mendel Leisk, Oct 31, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  12. NewHybridOwner

    NewHybridOwner Active Member

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    You wouldn't put jack stands at the front in the same position as those lift arms?

    But since the filter tool I have does extend down, I've got to make sure it's positioned correctly, otherwise it may engage the one rib but not the others, thus not seating properly.


    My point was that Toyota foresees that people may change the oil without changing the filter -- implying, to me, that it is not a terrible thing to change the oil without changing the filter.

     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I might take a look at that alternate alternate front jack stand location. Still, the one I marked works very well.
     
  14. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Forget jack stands for changing oil. I have and use them, but for changing oil, I use ramps. Easy to drive on and easy to drive off.
     
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  15. 2012 Prius v wagon 3

    2012 Prius v wagon 3 Active Member

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    10k is how I read it. 5k since the last change. 5k until the next one. And I believe 10k is the OCI the dealer will do, even when you take it in every 5k miles (at least that's what the dealer did to my car before I got it).
     
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I'm not saying that can't be part of the answer, but it puzzles me, though. How many years is several? My 2010 is 9 or 10 years old now. The housing always needs some extra oomph to start loosening when I do a filter change, but it is easy enough going back in, with the new filter and O ring. Next time I take it off, it needs oomph to start loosening, and is easy going back in again. Is it swelling and unswelling?
     
  17. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Nearly all plastics swell with the absorption of water and petroleum compounds. Probably the most stable plastic that does not absorb much water is PEEK or polyetheretherketone. It is however one of the most expensive of commercially available plastics.
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Ok, I'm just still struggling to connect that to the observed behavior.
     
  19. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Once it swells, it almost never "unswells." That's the nature of plastics.

    It swells and the cap is hard to remove. When replaced and torqued to 18 FT Lbs., due to frictional resistance, it just doesn't screw in as far as before it is removed.

    That's why PEEK is used in spacecraft and it has, in many cases used in high performance non metallic screws. It has also replaced 6Al4V titanium alloys in in body implants.

    Here is an example of how expensive PEEK components like screws are.

     
    #39 Georgina Rudkus, Oct 31, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  20. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    The steel spark plug wrench that comes with every Harbor Freight "Predator" small HP engine makes an ideal telescoping cheater bar for a 3/8 inch drive ratchet for the oil filter cap wrench. You can also place the handle of another ratchet on the other end to increase the length of the lever arm. ratchet oil wrench cheater bar.JPG
     
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