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Engine Kicking On After Start

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by TSonn, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. TSonn

    TSonn Junior Member

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    Hey All -

    You've been extremely helpful in the past and I'm hoping for some more of that help here! My wife and I each own a Prius v (mine a 2013 with 130k miles, hers a 2012 with 190k miles) and I've noticed that mine has started doing something a little weird recently.

    Every time I start the car the engine nearly always kicks on after about 10 seconds. It's a pretty loud rev, too. The engine will continue to run for the next couple minutes - even when I'm coasting. After a few minutes, it returns to "normal" i.e. stopping at stop lights, not running during coasting or ECO driving, etc. The only time it seems to not do this now is after it's been warmed up a bit like if I drive to the grocery store and then another store, it won't kick on aggressively all the time when I leave the grocery.

    Originally I just thought this was normal since I've only had the 2013 for a couple months, but my wife's older and higher mileage vehicle doesn't do this so it makes me think something is going on. Or maybe it is just normal?

    A few more details about my situation:
    • Hybrid battery is almost always at 80% full when this happens, never been in the purple.
    • I live in Michigan so weather is around 30 degrees
    • I checked the fan under the back seat (saw that as a suggestion on here) but I couldn't see anything blocking it. Maybe more info here could help on how to troubleshoot the hybrid battery fan/filter.
    • Engine kicks on if I'm in reverse, drive, park, etc.
    • No check engine light and it drives perfectly fine.
    • I've tried messing with the heat/fans and nothing seemed to matter (i.e. AC on/off)
    Any help or suggestions for troubleshooting would be great - thanks in advance!
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    My experience, with our 2010: it's pretty much normal behavior for the engine to start up, after 10~15 seconds. For sure on a cold start, and even most of the time on a warm start. If the car's fully warmed, and you've just stopped for a few minutes, it'll sometimes skip engine start up.

    I would think in winter it's even more likely the engine will start, regardless of coolant temp: the car is monitoring ambient temp, and cabin heat demands, tailoring behavior accordingly.

    I'm almost reluctant to open this can-o-worms, but considering the mileage on both vehicles: have you cleaned the EGR system and intake manifold?
     
    #2 Mendel Leisk, Jan 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    seems like normal operation to me. the engine has to go through the warm up stages for pollution reasons, before it will shut down.
    can you describe your wife's cars behavior in the same situations?
     
  4. TSonn

    TSonn Junior Member

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    Interesting - thanks for the info! Obviously I hope it's just normal operation but I wonder why our other vehicle doesn't act the same way...

    As far as the EGR system and intake manifold - no I haven't but I plan on installing an oil catch can into both soon and then also clean those systems while I've got everything open.
     
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  5. TSonn

    TSonn Junior Member

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    With our other car, it seems like the engine doesn't rev up until we actually accelerate enough to kick it on. For example, when I back out of the garage with my car, the engine refs about halfway down the driveway. When I back out with her car, the engine doesn't rev or turn on until I'm accelerating down the street.
     
  6. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Both are within normal expectations. No two machines are exactly the same. There will always be minor differences. The main point is that if the engine is not already warmed up, it will start within a few seconds of putting the car in READY mode. As an experiment, I would have your wife start hers at the exact same time as you start yours with both engines cold. Don't do anything else. Just sit and wait to see which starts the engine first and what the difference is. I would not be at all surprised if there is a slight difference, but they might be the same.
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we do have people reorting different engine start times from almost immediately, to 30 seconds or so.


    not sure what causes the differences. the programming has to be the same, unless differnt years got a small change in programming.
    otherwise, i'm thinking coolant heat retention.
     
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  8. TSonn

    TSonn Junior Member

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    Thanks all! I guess I'll stop worrying about this issue. Appreciate all the feedback - good to learn that not all machines perform the same.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Our 2010 hatchback will invariably start up, at the aforementioned 10~15 second mark. EV Mode is never available when the car is cold, which is the one time it would be really useful.

    Anyway: I really wish that 10~15 seconds was say 60 seconds. Typical scenario: I want to get our (stone cold) car out of the garage and parked in the driveway, so I can roll another car into the garage (say for an oil change). Without starting the engine.

    It's comical: I get it "ready", then immediately slam it into reverse and roll it back about 20 feet (while counting seconds), and shut down. Repeat this procedure twice more, sea-sawing over in the driveway, and I'm done.

    But c'mon Toyota, a few more seconds would be nice...
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Agreed, I want o/p’s wife’s car
     
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  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    When I had my Gen 2, I installed an EV button specifically so I could do what you describe. I thought Gen 3 was the same in that, if you hit EV before the ICE fired up, you could move it out of the garage and stuff like that. I did it a lot with the Gen 2 and the button I installed. I never had a regular Gen 3. The PiP would never do that when out of EV range but it refused to go to EV under any circumstances once the EV range was gone (just like the Prime in that regard).
     
  12. TSonn

    TSonn Junior Member

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    I'll have to test it out again this weekend. I only tried a couple times while actually paying attention to when the engine kicked on. Maybe those times she had driven it recently. I'll make sure to do a cold start to see if it's the same.

    O/T any good videos or threads on how to clean the EGR and manifold? And does it make sense to do those at the same time as installing an oil catch can? Would like to be as efficient with my time under the hood as possible.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah, do the EGR system cleaning, then intake manifold, and while the IM is off is a good time to install oil catch can. Some boilerplate info:

    The simplest way to see where you're at, is to check the degree of carbon build up in the EGR pipe, a stainless steel connecting pipe between the EGR valve and intake manifold. Watch @NutzAboutBolts video #16 here:

    Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

    Two or three other videos linked there too, for the full cleaning of the intake manifold, full EGR clean, and Oil Catch Can install.

    Good thread:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

    Another:

    Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock! | PriusChat

    Some tools worth having, for the EGR cleaning in particular:

    E8 Torx socket (mandatory)
    E6 Torx socket (optional, but good to have, to remove the throttle body studs from intake manifold)
    3/8" ratchet wrench, regular and long handle, flex head, you can never have enough (or 1/2 plus reducer)
    1/4" ratchet wrench, or 3/8" to 1/4" reducer
    Ratchet extensions: you can never have enough
    Long needle nose piers, straight and bent tip
    Ratcheting 12mm box wrench (optional, but makes disconnection of the EGR cooler from exhaust easier)
    Torque wrench (3/8" and 1/4" both good to have)
    Floor jack and safety stands (or ramps): basically some method to raise front, if you need to take underpanel off, which you may need to, both for access and to recover dropped items.
     
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  15. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    TSonn, I’ve been borrowing my parents’ v a lot because my wife’s 2nd car, which I like to use, keeps breaking down.

    I also notice that the car tends to keep the battery at around 80 % most of the time, actually for me it’s two bars from the top, and sometimes it will go up to 1 bar from the top.

    I do believe it is really based on your driving style, how gentle you tend to accelerate or brake.

    Here’s a thought: If possible swap cars with your wife for a couple/few days. Watch, I bet her car will do what you describe, and yours will act like hers.
     
  16. TSonn

    TSonn Junior Member

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    An update:

    Well, first some backstory. I bought this car in October from a private seller who left me diligent notes about the work he had done himself and his shop had done. When I purchased, the most recent oil change was 3k miles ago so I decided that I would schedule a safety inspection at my local Toyota dealer within the next 2k to check over everything. I had the inspection on 12/30 and was told (and given a sheet) that everything looked great - new tires, full oil, brakes looked new, no engine leak, etc. This was great news but also interesting to me because when I checked the oil a few days before with the dip stick, I thought it looked quite low (like, lower than the low dimple). I bought some oil but didn't add any because the inspection was scheduled in a couple days anyway. I know how to read a dipstick but the Prius V stick was a little different with notches and dimples and when the inspection came back all good and the oil was full "at arrival" I just assumed I was reading it wrong.

    Anyway, I tested my wife's car last week and noticed that it does, in fact, turn on from a cold start about 10 seconds after starting the car - just like mine does. The big difference is that my engine is much more aggressive and louder than hers so it was significantly more noticeable.

    Around the same time I made my original post here, I noticed that the oil light had started flickering on and off when I'd make tight turns so I scheduled an appointment for an oil change at the dealer on 1/16. I thought it was more likely that it was an electrical issue since just 17 days ago they told me my oil was full. When I got to the dealer for my appointment, I explained that the oil light was flickering on and that seemed weird since they just told my oil was full on 12/30. The service tech quickly checked my oil and he said none was showing on the dipstick. He said I was low about 2.5 - 3 quarts from being marked full 17 days ago.

    Super weird. So now I'm in an official oil consumption test procedure where I need to bring my car back in after driving between 1,100-1,300 miles for them to test how much oil the engine is burning.

    I'm really curious about the outcome because even though the warranty says this is only covered 60 months of 60,000 miles since the first service date, the service tech said if my engine fails this test they will be replacing it for free. My car has 130k miles. Maybe that warranty means 60 months from my safety inspection? I don't know. I also think it's weird that I checked my oil on 12/28 and saw that it had no oil in it and the safety inspection tech marked "full at time of arrival". Maybe they know they messed up and are covering their bum?

    Anyway, all that is to say that yes, my wife's car's engine turns on at the same time as mine but mine is much louder which, I'm guessing, is because it's been low on oil since my original safety inspection on 12/30.

    I'll keep you all updated - I'm almost at 1,100 miles already since I took a trip this weekend so hopefully will get it in this week.
     
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Here's some info, the Technical Service Bulletins for the oil consumption test, and the cure (if approved), which involves a complete engine tear-down and replacement of the pistons and rings with revised parts. And of course the head gasket, and all the other gaskets, O-rings, and seals. Perhaps dealerships and/or Toyota are opting to just replace the engine now?
     

    Attached Files:

  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    @TSonn, that's terrific if you can get a "new" engine out of the deal at no cost other than some inconvenience.

    As for the noise difference, your two cars have different engines and the newer ones are considerably quieter. Then, too, since yours is apparently an oil burner, things are looser in there than they should be so that makes it even louder yet.
     
  19. TSonn

    TSonn Junior Member

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    Thanks! What's interesting to me is my vehicle has 130,000 miles on it so I'm wondering why it's covered under the warranty at all. Not mad about it at all but I hope they don't pull the old switcheroo on me after telling me it would be covered!

    Just checked my oil this morning and after 800 miles the dipstick is already at the low dimple so clearly something is going on.

    Makes sense! But that's even weirder because my Prius is a 2013 and hers is a 2012 (I need to update my avatar) so mine should be the one that's more quiet. Maybe more proof that something is really going on with my engine despite no check engine light.
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Something is odd here: one of the cornerstones of the oil consumption test, is to attach seals to all the engine openings that could be used to extract oil. Say by an owner, hoping to make the consumption look worse.

    The dipstick in the tube should have a seal on it; it should not be checkable. Take a look at the first pdf, that details the test procedure, for what gets sealed.


    Considering the lack of seal(s), your miles (well over 60K), and the promise of a brand new engine (not the rebuild authorized by Toyota), this is starting to sound fishy. Who knows, but be on your toes.
     
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