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Toyota USA Refuses to Honor Extension of Warranty Coverage for Sticking EGR

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by jburg, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. jburg

    jburg Member

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    So, to give everyone background on this my wife and I moved in together in the summer of 2016 and we must have missed the Warranty Enhancement Program - ZF3 for the EGR via USPS.

    I am a car guy (family owns an auto parts store) and have taken care of the vehicle since we have started dating and noted oil-consumption since ~75000 miles. Most, if not all of the scheduled maintenance has been done by myself. My father-in-law commuted with the car in Ohio from the Cleveland suburbs to work in downtown, putting on ~15 to 20k miles per year for the first 4 years of its life and the vehicle was typically serviced for oil every 10000 miles, from what he has told me, with 0W-20 full synthetic (I have switched to 5W-20 in NC due to the warmer climate).

    We take my wife's car on our road trips due to the better economy and space. About 2 years ago (Christmas time), maybe 30000 miles or so ago, I noted the death rattle after a few day-long cold soak in the Ohio winter (2017 was particularly cold single digits to teens) and I thought the car threw a rod at first. Anyways, no CEL codes were thrown and I had started to note the rattle and loss of power in heavy traffic, under low load, or when the car would idle for long periods of time that everyone is all to familiar with here. Always thought it was the oil mist recirculating via the PCV through the intake manifold (Mist is oil and water vapor, which is incompressible and less volatile and combustible, spikes the compression ratio as it builds up and causes low-speed preignition (LSPI), makes sense to me). The car has never had the death rattle at start-up since then (to my knowledge). Well, fast forward to 2019, while in Ohio again after a few day-long cold soak, the car gets the death rattle again for only about 5 to 10 seconds. Again, no CEL. I just think it is oil and moisture in the intake manifold (this was never replaced or cleaned) when we come back from the holidays (560-mile road trip, still no CEL), I replace the battery and then a few days later we get the P0401 code. That's when I start looking into everything and found the ZF3 warranty extension. Always planned on the following maintenance due to the oil consumption issue, but didn't know about the EGR issues as well.

    I have since cleaned out the intake manifold (new gaskets), EGR pipe, replaced the PCV, installed an oil catch can and cleaned out the EGR pipe between the valve and intake manifold (see attached). I found the EGR pipe sub-assembly (EGR cooler) and EGR valve and gaskets from a dealer in Richmond and was about to order them, but I decided I would call up Toyota corporate to see if I may still be covered.

    Toyota called me today and said NO DICE, which I figured because most manufacturers want you to pony up and buy a new car. The warranty was null and void the LAST DAY OF 2019, a meer 4 weeks ago and 1 week or so before the car first threw the CEL and they will not honor it. The douche on the phone literally told me that it happened to his 2011 and he dealt with it immediately blah blah blah and this problem with the EGR didn't warrant a full recall. I told him Toyota knew this was an issue and is directly related to the excessive oil consumption issue noted on the 2ZR-FXE block because of the poor piston/ring design and based on the TSB's that Toyota has released, they were trying to fix the issue the cheapest possible - basically put a bandaid on the problem. I also said they have since redesigned the EGR to recirculate exhaust gases post-cat to deal with carbon build-up and supposedly fixed the consumption issues on the newer blocks (2015+) I made sure the line was recorded. Also said that all of the recalls and engineering flaws on this vehicle will seriously make me consider buying another Toyota. He then asked if there is anything else he could do for me. I said no, I will just order the parts and fix the issue myself.

    As a note, we have not had the CEL or any rattles at this point, but I am not risking premature head gasket failure. Just going to move forward with the EGR cooler and valve replacement.
     

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    #1 jburg, Jan 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i feel the same way, but i'm not sure there's a more reliable vehicle out there to switch to.
     
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  3. jburg

    jburg Member

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    Yeah I feel you. At this point, I am thinking that I will finish up all the maintenance items and sell her for $5500 to $6000 and put that toward a newer Toyota (used) that I can do my own research on.
    Front and rear brakes
    Rear hatch struts/liftgate supports (On hand)
    EGR valve and cooler (Ordered)
    Upstream O2 sensor (On hand [based on the level of junk in the EGR pipe, I am sure this is not functioning to full ability. Plus they are rated for 100000 to 120000 miles])
    Outer tie rods
    Front sway bar links
    Fresh brake fluid
    Car also has tires with about 3000 miles on them - Goodyear MAXlife 85k

    Minus the oil burning (which is my eyes is totally unacceptable if you maintained the vehicle to the manufacture's specs [we burn ~0.65 to 0.8 quarts/1000 miles based on usage]) and my anxiety about the head gasket and inverter, it has been a pretty reliable vehicle.

    Hands down, Toyota is still one of the more reliable brands on the market. My coworker says his dad wants to get rid of his 2014 Avalon Hybrid with the 2.5L block, so I started looking into that model and noted issues. I am just leery about getting another hybrid, but you can't argue with the fuel economy specifically when we put ~15k miles on it per year.
     
    #3 jburg, Jan 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i only keep my cars for 60-70,000 miles. if i were going to keep them long term, maybe i'd look at a gasser with decent fuel economy, but more likely a bev at this stage of my game. long term seems pretty good for tesla, maybe bolt, new leaf, who knows?
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    at least you can diy. very important on these vehicles, because mechs are hard to come by, and dealers are outrageous, if not clueless.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah just go for it. (y)

    Some boilerplate info (more info and torque values in the attached):

    The simplest way to see where you're at, is to check the degree of carbon build up in the EGR pipe, a stainless steel connecting pipe between the EGR valve and intake manifold. Watch @NutzAboutBolts video #16 here:

    Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

    Two or three other videos linked there too, for the full cleaning of the intake manifold, full EGR clean, and Oil Catch Can install.

    Good thread:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

    Another:

    Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock! | PriusChat

    Some tools worth having:

    E8 Torx socket (mandatory)
    E6 Torx socket (optional, but good to have, to remove the throttle body studs from intake manifold)
    3/8" ratchet wrench, regular and long handle, flex head, you can never have enough (or 1/2 plus reducer)
    1/4" ratchet wrench, or 3/8" to 1/4" reducer
    Ratchet extensions: you can never have enough
    Long needle nose piers, straight and bent tip
    Ratcheting 12mm box wrench (optional, but makes disconnection of the EGR cooler from exhaust easier)
    Torque wrench (3/8" and 1/4" both good to have)
    Floor jack and safety stands (or ramps): basically some method to raise front, if you need to take underpanel off, which you may need to, both for access and to recover dropped items.
     
  7. jburg

    jburg Member

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    I forgot to add that I installed the OCC with all of the pre-top-end cleaning I've already did (see above and attached [was before I went to the hardware store to pick up some stainless washers, nuts, and bolts and moved it over to the open hole behind the headlight]) :)

    Thanks for the list of tools needed and the repair manuals with the torque specs (pretty sure I have everything I need). Always easier than going back in my house to look up what they are and I am very familiar with all of Nutz About Bolts videos. Probably the reason why this thing hasn't blown up already.

    Also, included a picture of the EGR pipe (EGR valve to intake manifold) above. You couldn't see the light of day through it and the mixture was like grease. The intake manifold was also particularly bad (used 2 cans of brake cleaner and 1 can of Gumout Regane Cleaner/Degreaser on it). It was absolutely disgusting and was what made the job take so long. After the brake cleaner evaporated in the oil basin I was using, it was like sludge :sick:.

    I also cleaned off the MAP/IAT sensor with some QD electronics cleaner. I was glad that I was careful with that, sucker is ~$200.

    The techs at the STealerships are typically only as good as the TSBs that they get. Also, good mechanics in general are a rare find. I STILL don't have one I trust and I have lived down here for 10+ years. I just want someone who will do X and say. "Hey, I had everything apart and your lower ball joint is starting to go. I can get it in for the cost of the part and the press job." I had a mechanic like that in NJ, but he retired. I would actually drive my cars back for higher level maintenance - for example timing belt and water pump on my 2000 Civic when I had first moved down here.
     

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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's exactly what i have here. i can tell the guy to look over the whole car, take it for a drive, and he'll rarely suggest something. just honest as the day is long
     
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  9. jburg

    jburg Member

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    After 1200 miles post-EGR pipe cleaning, the car threw the P0401 code again. This was after we took a 225-mile round trip, no rattle according to my wife just threw the code.

    Well, EGR valve and EGR subassembly/cooler were replaced today and antifreeze was topped off. The EGR cooler was clogged solid, really happy I bought a new one. The job took 5.5 hrs and was a pain in the butt. The hardest thing was getting the freaking coolant lines off the cooler and getting the gasket between the EGR cooler and exhaust manifold lined up. It was actually easier doing the bottom stud from under the vehicle.

    She rattled for a millisecond on start-up in maintenance mode (only third documented time), but my guess is that the ECU has to relearn how to open and close the EGR valve now that there are actually exhaust gases flowing again.

    Afterward, I went on a 30 mile or so ride, and everything seemed to go well no CEL illumination MPG was around 50. Still think I am mishearing a very slight rattle, so I may take the intake manifold off again and clean the EGR ports with a pressure washer, or just buy a new one. There was no loss of power and I made sure to put her under low load going up hills, staying just above the center ECO line, etc. I was going to try another cold soak start-up tonight as well.

    *After looking at that picture it looks like I may need to adjust the bracket that holds wire harness.
    IMG_20200223_175826_01.jpg
     
  10. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    What are your plans for the plugged cooler:whistle:?

    I bet if you listed it on here, there'd be members who'd take it off your hands;).

    Glad you got the circuit sorted(y).
     
  11. Borninblue

    Borninblue Active Member

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    Nice work, catch can is my next move as well. EGR been there done that. Can you provide a link to the bracket that you used to mount the catch can and the other parts needed? I’m in Cleveland myself and my oil burning is getting worse by the day. I can only imagine the clogging it’s doing just after I cleaned everything about 15K ago. Should have done it at that time...dang it, my knuckles were busted from the EGR surgery and I let it go. Once it warms up I want to get that catch can installed. I was debating on selling myself but I just decided I’ll ride it till she dies unless the burning really gets out of hand.
     
  12. jburg

    jburg Member

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    I was going to clean her out and list her on eBay to recoup some of my costs, but I could always sell it here.
     
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  13. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Pressure washer is your best bet;).

    I've done it over a hand full of times that way:).

    Good luck with the cleaning and selling(y).
     
  14. jburg

    jburg Member

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    Here is the link for the bracket (Prius Oil Catch Can Bracket by Danlatu - Thingiverse) I will have to check my receipt, but the hardware was just a few stainless nuts and bolts that I grabbed from HomeDepot and stainless hose clamps. All of the other parts are exactly what Nutz&Boltz reported on YouTube (
    ). Got the hoses from the Naper and the catch can from Amazon.

    While you are at it I would go ahead and put in a new PCV valve and run bottle after bottle (think we are up to 4 or 5 tanks now) of PEA injector cleaner through and use premium fuel, Shell in particular. My oil burn is down to maybe 0.5/1500 miles, way lower than it was.

    I am also going to switch over to 0W-40 based on recommendations on here to see if it comes down further.

    Here are the contents of the can after ~1200 miles. Like a fine espresso. IMG_20200215_152732.jpg
     
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  15. Borninblue

    Borninblue Active Member

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    Interesting thank you much...I’ve never ordered anything from “thingverse” I assume I have to make and account on there before I can order? Just want to make sure it’s legit.
     
  16. jburg

    jburg Member

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    The link is for 3D printer plans. You can't order one that I know of. There are some libraries that have 3D printers, but you can always reach out to CSU to see if they have a 3D printer service on campus, etc.
     
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Have you cleaned the intake manifold?


    N'mind, see you have. (y)
     
  18. jburg

    jburg Member

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    Yes, I have, but I am thinking about taking it apart and cleaning it again with a pressure washer this time. Don't think I got everything out and maybe that's why it rattled a bit on start-up or the gunk is affecting the turbulence/directionality of the recirculated exhaust gas into the combustion chamber.
     
  19. jburg

    jburg Member

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    After looking through some pictures of the EGR ports, I probably didn't get her good enough. Maybe some of the ports are partially clogged still.
     
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  20. Borninblue

    Borninblue Active Member

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    Thanks for that info, I must be getting old. Wow never knew you could take plans like this and they could print a part out for you!
     
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