1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I had wondered about this. At one time antibodies in the blood were considered effective but I'm wondering if T-cells might be equally important.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    575
    595
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Speaking of charts, here's a depressing one with useful information:



    Buckle up America, we're going to be at current Italian levels at roughly March 24th.
     
    Robert Holt and litesong like this.
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Keep them coming, @noonm !

    Lazy bisco @758, not blood exactly. Need to spin out hematocytes because desired antibodies are in 'the juice'. Maybe a month ago this was being done in China, posted here by me here. Getting goodies from recovered volunteers is a great way to fill gaps until therapeutics and vaccines work after testing.

    Must remove hematocytes because cross reactions can make recipients' blood into aspic. Let's just say dead.
     
  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    @bobw @761

    T cells are not the thing (I suggest) because (almost) everybody has plenty but they are not goal directed. COVID antibodies are informative. Very sick dudes (almost by definition) are insufficient in informed antibodies.

    Shoot more T cells into them (you pretty much can't) and you'd bring on cytokine storm, and get another dead guy.

    ==
    90 square meters of lung surface is weird. But necesary. COVID-19 as its worst pre empts much of that for new virus manufacture. Innate and induced immune responses pre empts more for war. It's a tricky balance because dude in question still needs to be oxygenated somehow.
     
    Robert Holt and bwilson4web like this.
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    This discussion goes not to truly evil hemorrhagic viruses that miss their 'goals' by not making lots of copies.

    Respiratory viruses do better without killing dudes. Just make shedders. It is, generally, one's own immune system dialed up to 11 that kills ya.

    Only recently has viral use of humans as makers, shedders and spreaders been suppressed. Happens mostly not in hospitals but on the street where we have (?) learned to spread less.
     
    Robert Holt and bwilson4web like this.
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,369
    15,511
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I was under the impression that white and T-cells could 'exchange' genetic material to code for antibody formation. But I'd not thought that a foreign cell would preferentially trigger a more vigorous response against them . . . negating any antibody coding.

    What about interferon? Are they generic anti-viral or specific to the virus in a compromised cell?

    Not to sound grim, could antibodies be harvested postmortem without a viral load ... a type of organ donation?

    Bob Wilson

    ps. This exhausts my layman's understanding.
     
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    "could antibodies be harvested postmortem without a viral load"

    Yes. Take all 5 liters from dead guy, spin it down. As to the second phrase I think it represents unavoidable fellow travelers. But the happy juice would only get shot into someone already very sick who (apparently) has not self made sufficient antibodies. It is no one's first choice. But blood transfers anecdotally helped in China and are now being considered elsewhere.
     
    Robert Holt and bwilson4web like this.
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,678
    49,376
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i was reading one doc who said the virus infiltrates while we sleep because we aspirate. he said it has to get beyond the trachea to do damage.
    he recommended cleaning your nostrils with soap and water, and gargling with anticeptic mouthwash before retiring, to limit the number of viruses if you have been infected that day
     
  9. George W

    George W Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2018
    911
    511
    1
    Location:
    San Antonio
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    received_211044123296572.jpeg
     
    VFerdman and noonm like this.
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,678
    49,376
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    traveling up the east cosat, the closer we get to home, the more prepared we are seeing hotels and restaurants
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  11. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,481
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Hopefully they have toilet paper;).

    They closed the local Costco down yesterday out here due to unruly customers:eek:.

    A lot of prized commodities I guess:whistle:.

    Safe travels north though(y).
     
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,135
    6,683
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Is that time or latitude?
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,678
    49,376
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    jersey. panera had a new customer/employee covid notification. place was spotless, no more customer interaction with products or accessories.

    residence inn, posted cleaning policy

    last night, in n.c., things were more relaxed
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  14. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,481
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Got a haircut today and they had posted signs if your sick, we'll cut your hair another day;).

    No wait either:).

    The hand sanitizer was used prior to me sitting in the chair as well and when I left (y).
     
    bisco likes this.
  15. litesong

    litesong Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    371
    122
    0
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    "don'T rump"..... Hey, I'm the Pressy-dent. No one gets anything.... even re-pubic-lick-uns.
     
  16. litesong

    litesong Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    371
    122
    0
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Gonna be a lot of long-hairs, & I ain't talkin' classical music lovers.
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    So far only infections in China and S Korea have 'turned the corner'. Until more countries do, total infections cannot be anticipated.

    Only as below have I assessed fatality rates. Method assumes that all data are accurate and complete. Maybe not though eh? Even so, consistent analyses may yield insights.

    Germany……. …. …. …..0.8%
    China without Hubei….....0.9%
    S Korea……. …. …. . ….1.4%
    UK……. …. …. …. . …...2.0%
    Australia………. ………..3.9%
    Spain…….. …. …. ..…. .3.9%
    France………. …. …. ....4.0%
    Hubei……. …. …. ….….4.5%
    Italy………. …. …. …. ...7.9%

    I will update and add more countries from WHO sitreps as my time permits. Almost ten-fold range here calls us to wonder why. Calls you to think about COVID-19 care in your country.
     
    Robert Holt likes this.
  18. George W

    George W Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2018
    911
    511
    1
    Location:
    San Antonio
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    My wife and I usually go for the grocery pick-up option with Walmart. Today this system was automatically canceling orders, even as Walmart associates were trying to bag them. It took a long phone call to be assured that our payment would be returned quickly.

    We went to our closest Walmart expecting the worst. Yes, the usual things were out of stock, but we were not shopping for those things. We frequently oversupply on cleaning materials. My wife oversupplies on Bath & Body Works products (including sanitizers).

    The crowd was civil, but busy. No one was outwardly panicking yet. I felt we were better supplied by ourselves, instead of letting some minimum-wage employee grab what was left and throwing it in a sack.
     
    #778 George W, Mar 14, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,678
    49,376
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    480 tested in massachusetts, 120 presumptive positive. i wonder how the ratio will change if they ever get testing in place
     
  20. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,455
    1,703
    0
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    ----USA----
    Wish we could finally get to asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic population testing with contact tracing. That would help answer many critical questions, including if we should close down schools and if so, for how long.

    Unfortunately this remains not to be in the cards and no indication for the near future.
     
    SFO likes this.