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Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Trollbait, Mar 20, 2020.

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  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    #1 Trollbait, Mar 20, 2020
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  2. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

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    This is great news. Every ICE car should be a hybrid.
     
    #2 Prashanta, Mar 20, 2020
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not a bad looking car, despite the grrrrrill. saw a lot attractive hundai rentals in orlando.

    any pricing yet?
     
    #3 bisco, Mar 20, 2020
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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Doubt we'll get any pricing figures until closer to the release.
     
    #4 Trollbait, Mar 20, 2020
  5. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Yeah I looked for more hybrids before going with RAV4H.
    That proposed Venza looks good I mgiht have gone with that if it were available.
     
    #5 wjtracy, Mar 20, 2020
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I thought I'd read that Hyundai had halted their line last month, so it might be longer.
     
    #6 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Mar 20, 2020
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    hope no one minds me editing the above . . . .
    ;)
    maybe next rev?
    .
     
    #7 hill, Mar 20, 2020
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  8. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    What if one has no plug?
     
    #8 telmo744, Mar 20, 2020
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  9. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

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    You can buy a new hybrid car for $23,000 today, which can be your only car if you choose, and you can do this without making any lifestyle compromises. The same cannot be said of PHEVs (yet). Hybridization is such an easy low-hanging fruit that it baffles me that we don't pick them right away.
     
    #9 Prashanta, Mar 20, 2020
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  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    That might be a stretch, I think the Prius c was the only hybrid subcompact before it was discontinued, and I don't know of any hybrid pickups though I understand GM dabbled for a bit.
     
    #10 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Mar 20, 2020
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    PHEVs don't have to be plugged in, and doing so isn't much of a lifestyle change. Beyond they are just a hybrid.
     
    #11 Trollbait, Mar 20, 2020
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  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I interpreted "lifestyle change" to mean limited selection of body types or car classes available for PHEVs.
     
    #12 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Mar 20, 2020
  13. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Many plug-in hybrids have a common Otto engine, when not plugged in they are almost tradicional ICEs. Only the regen braking is a step forward, valid in urban.
    They are made to be plugged in, otherwise the bigger battery is a production waste.
     
    #13 telmo744, Mar 20, 2020
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Which ones? The Outlander recently got an Atkinson engine in your market. The Volvo/BMW/Mercedes/Audi PHEVs are power hybrids, and not trying for the best fuel economy. The non-plug versions weren't either.

    That aside, my post was a round about way of pointing out that PHEVs aren't BEVs, and don't require major changes to a person's habits. Plugging in at home or work isn't a major undertaking, and it takes gas when charging isn't an option. So they can easily by the only car.

    I agree not plugging a PHEV would be waste, but people have bought them with no intention of charging them. They wanted the HOV access in California. With the amount of incentives, I'm sure some bought a Prime in the US just because it was cheaper than a Prius.
     
    #14 Trollbait, Mar 20, 2020
  15. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

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    But you cannot purchase a "decent" one for $23k new. Otherwise, I agree with you. PHEVs are great if you can afford the increase in price and can plug the vehicle every day to do majority of daily commute on electricity.
     
    #15 Prashanta, Mar 20, 2020
  16. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    The only other PHEV with Atkinson besides Toyota and Hyundai/Kia (Optima isn't) is that Mitsubishi.
    All others: Volvo, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Seat, Peugeot, Citroen, Chrysler and Volkswagen, "power hybrids" or not, are Ottos.


    Correct. Some people buy a cheaper car with more features because of incentives, they should use that.
     
    #16 telmo744, Mar 20, 2020
  17. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Is it more of a waste than buying a ICE? Over the life of the car?
    I don't know. But we'd have to analyze based on:
    - per individual car
    - based on a fleet of cars
    - based on potentially accelerating the charging infrastructure
    - based on accelerating BEV adoption

    Lightly used batteries from a PHEV that was rarely plugged in could find a second life on the grid

    Mike
     
    #17 3PriusMike, Mar 20, 2020
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    With the various incentives from the feds, states, and Toyota, a Prius Prime could be had for that much in the US.

    The Pacifica hybrid has an Atkinson engine, as does the Optima(it uses the same drive train as the Sonata). The Fusion does, and I'm sure the Voltec cars in China do.

    And being Otto doesn't automatically mean inefficient. The pre-hybrid fuel misers used Otto. Toyota's Dynamic Force Otto engines have 40% peak thermal efficiency, same as the Atkinson in the Prius. The Atkinson version in the hybrids only improves to 41%. The Atkinson cycle trades power for fuel economy through valve timing. That could be done with an Otto through a smaller displacement.
     
    #18 Trollbait, Mar 20, 2020
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  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    must have missed it ... what life style change is necessary w/ a PHEV? many buy them here just for the HOV sticker & never plug in at all. So they can use all the gas they want, if they want. No change afaict.
    it's up to the individual - but my line is;

    "no plug - no deal"
    .
     
    #19 hill, Mar 20, 2020
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  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    We have 2 PHEV's .... one's a 5 seater sedan, & the other a minivan. I know there's small sedans too ... and mid & small SUT's like Volvo T8 & NERO - although the nero may just be EV or ICE.
    quickie search brought up this list for USA;
    20 Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles On The Market In 2018 (USA) | CleanTechnica
    .
     
    #20 hill, Mar 20, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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