Ghost: Finally, Real Self-Driving

Wow... $3495 plus $99/mo subscription required. So, what does it do that $1200 one time cost of Comma.ai openpilot can not do?

 

It has 360 degree view around the car, claims full self driving, and may have the NHTSA's blessing.

Comma is just more advanced driver aids than what the car has. The Comma One was cancelled after the company was contacted by the NHTSA.
"The NHTSA letter explained that given its mandate of ensuring safety on U.S. roadways, it needed to ensure the Comma One is compliant with regulations before it can be offered for sale.NHTSA then issued a “special order” directed at Comma.ai, which insisted that the company provide detailed answers to 15 questions related to Comma One, its design, testing practices and information regarding safety trials, intended target vehicles and anticipated sales timeline." - Comma.ai cancels the Comma One following NHTSA letter – TechCrunch
Which sounds like the same info the NHTSA asks of anybody working on these more advanced systems.

Comma seems to have found a loop hole for their current offering. They made the software opensource, and just sell the required hardware.

I caught an interview with the creator when he was still working on a prototype, and there was no Comma company. He came across as more reckless than Elon. Which is why I haven't considered the system for myself.

Ghost is an unknown. The cost is a major turn off, and if it works, it is more functionality than I need.

 

It claims to be a Level 3, but then advertises as if it were a Level 5:

"Ghost will never require the driver to intervene at a moment's notice."

 

My wife asked me to choose, Tesla Y, Subaru Ascent, Hyundai Palisade, Kia Telluride, or Ford Explorer ST. (Explorer I added because it is a new considerarion of mine). Thought for a while and said Tesla because of self-driving. Could pay for A LOT of $99 months if I didn't have to buy a whole Tesla to get it.

Just told her about it, and she immediately said "$99 for how long?"

moto g(7) power ?

 

open pilot? canceled? It's still available in lots of places .... so much so we were seriously considering laying out the $1K to get it & set it up.

comma two devkit | comma.ai shop

So how does that work .... canceled but still purchaseable.w

EDIT:
Reading up .... you have to download/install software after order.
.

 

1. what type of wiring do they use

2. what type of grommets do they use

3. what type of connectors do they use

4. what type of testing have they done on their sensors / cameras for environmental stability

5. what protocol do they use for software updates

6. where are their servers located

7. how do they monitor driver drowsiness

8. where did they get their data from

9. how do they get power for their system from the car, through what circuits

10. what happens if the power to the system fails

11. how do they figure out the CANBUS control codes for hundreds of different models of automobile to control steering, braking, and acceleration

12. how do they deal with the different mounting positions of the cameras relative to the road, in other words different distances between cameras and different heights of cameras from the surface, how does this affect their algorithms

13. how much do software updates cost (oh i see above, $99 month)

14. how do they deal with driving the steering wheel back and forth when the steering system was not designed for that. how do they sense when the driver takes control of the steering wheel vs when the autopilot is controlling the wheel. Tesla had this baked in to the entire steering system from the ground up in their design, how do you add this on to an existing system that doesn't expect for the steering wheel position to be controlled by a motor.

15. how can you guarantee compatability between Ghost software and manufacturer software if both are constantly being updated and changed - especially on newer cars that have built in software updates. Does GHOST have a fleet of manufacturers cars that it performs regression testing on against each version of the manufacturers software vs each version of GHOST software?

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edit

16. What software languages are they using

17. what build systems are they using for their code

18. how much redundancy is built into the hardware

19. are they formally verifying their machine learning algorithms for image classification? how does that work

20 are they formally verifying the hardware as well?

21. their advertising says there are "no bugs, no glitches" due to formal verification of code . so how does their system solve the Trolley problem? it seems like if they have formally verified the algorithm then it should have decided on an answer to every Trolley-like problem.

 

sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen

 

Fully answered later in that very same post of his:

 

The timeline seems to be

• Comma announces the Comma One will become available.
• NHTSA sends them a letter asking them some basic questions about how have they ensured this safely works on the road.
• The Comma One is cancelled.
• Comma puts their software on the web for anyone to download.
• They start selling the hardware that lets you use the free software with your car.

Some of these might have been questions the NHTSA set to Comma.

For #12, the price of the system and installation probably covers calibrating the cameras for the specific car.

#14 Electric power steering is now the norm. The only reason there is still a physical connection between the steering wheel and steering rack is for redundancy. The motor is powerful enough that when early systems lost power, the steering wheel locked it place.

 

It's way cool watching how easy it is to install open pilot for the DIY'er. It's almost worth doing despite the $1,000 - just to install it as a hobby. Seeing how well open pilot works on YouTube, it's no worse than when Tesla's AP2 was 1st launched in 2016. From experience, when AP2 was first launched, it was a mighty scary experience for the first 10 months ... and no better than AP1 for well over 1½ years after AP2 launched. For example, AP1 could confidently change lanes on freeways & almost all surface streets. Back then, it was tough to get AP2 to just reliably change lanes on freeways only. And for what we paid to get tesla's early AP2 experiment? Yeah, open pilot seems like a bargain. It too gets better and better as open source developers continually contribute & refine it.
.

 

These machine learning auto driving systems work upon the shared experience of the cars in the network to improve their operation and problem solving ability. Even Tesla gave Autopilot some 'training' before releasing it to the public. From the piece from years ago, it seemed like Comma guy just wanted to push his system out without that.

Of course, that could be an issue with this Ghost also.

 

Full self-driving Tesla to be released next week to a select group of careful drivers:

Musk: Autopilot's Full Self-Driving Feature to Debut Next Week - Tesla Motors Club

That ought to put a crimp in future ghost sales, with their $99 a month on top of their already high price.

 

What?
No questions about ISO 26262 and ISIL B vs ISIL D compliance for the different software tools used including the OS?

Mike

 

I was concerned about this too.

 

Be nice if it works. If I got it I'd have to assume I was a beta tester. If you don't send them $100 a month forever, do they shut it off on you? Once it's in, what do you need that subscription for ???

 

My guess is it is like GM's Supercruise to some extent. That makes use of detailed maps, and why it doesn't work everywhere. Without the subscription, you don't get the up to date maps, and without them, the system operation is less than optimal, if it works at all.

 

It pays for the binding arbitration that keeps you from ever being able to sue them when it kills your family.