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What’s the reviews on these Prismatic modules

Discussion in 'Prius c Main Forum' started by Daniel CW, Mar 17, 2021.

  1. Daniel CW

    Daniel CW Junior Member

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    Good day guys what’s the reviews on these modules for the Prius C, as opposed to the cylindrical ones
    E231A3FC-80F2-4A68-AC8A-7DD47F0811E0.jpeg 86022978-8419-436D-B056-369A228C643A.jpeg
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nothing on this continent that i recall
     
  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    IDK, they look like copies of the 2001-2003 Gen 1 modules. I'd be a bit cautious about dumping a bunch of $$ on them, but if you're limited on options, what can you do?
     
  4. Daniel CW

    Daniel CW Junior Member

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    In my country a new OEM pack from Toyota would cost approximately 5000usd, so lots of people are looking for cheaper alternatives, most technicians are using the cylindrical packs, which appears to be working fine but IMHO haven’t been used for long enough to form a proper opinion if they are a comparative to the OEM packs. These cylindrical Chinese packs are being sold for 2000usd installed. The only other option available are reconditioned packs where bad modules are being swapped out and the whole pack deep cycled and balanced.
     
  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Most don't realize that this classic prism shape is panasonic's most successful shape ever and that shape is more than just Toyota. My guess is someone made a mold of a standard module and they added green colorings and perhaps putting something different / more advanced inside as packet instead of two decade old version?

    Also, the battery chemistry is not clear? What are we talking about? NiMH or Some kind of Lithium?
     
  6. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Without a doubt, the prismatics are everywhere. I was going by the sides appearing to not have the metal layer. The sides look like the Gen 1 style, yet the top appears to match later gens. Looking through the website, they have different styles for just about every hybrid car ever made.

    Get Toyota Prius Hybrid Battery Replacement | EnnoCar

    From their "about us" page.....

    EnnoCar integrates latest industry trends with an over-a-decade experience to all levels of its manufacturing process with its sister brand CEBA Battery at the headquarters office in Shenzhen and four factories in Mainland China.
     
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  7. Daniel CW

    Daniel CW Junior Member

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    NIMH, I am just looking at the options available, what’s the feasibility of swapping out OEM modules with used better conditioned ones as opposed to going with one of these cylindrical or prismatic Chinese packs? New OEM packs are out of the question, just to costly. I know the history of Chinese manufacturing but most of the everyday products we use now are manufactured in China
     
  8. Daniel CW

    Daniel CW Junior Member

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  9. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Given your location, good "local" support might be as important as quality; maybe more.
    And given the company's bio, I'd be a little suspicious.
    They have been in business a WHOLE decade !!
     
  10. Daniel CW

    Daniel CW Junior Member

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    Hybrid technology is fairly new to my country probably about 5 years, so local expertise is limited and very conflicting. For example there are some techs who say don’t open you pack until the car sends a code, while others say regular bus bar cleaning, deep cycling and balancing is best for long life of the HV battery. Also there are some dishonest techs advertising new OEM packs when they are really refurbished, for 2200USD. As said before a brand new OEM pack would cost approx 5000usd.
    Hence the reason people are gravitating to these Chinese packs, which still ain’t cheap, but for 2000usd you can get a new pack as opposed to a refurbished pack.
    Finally what are your thoughts on just replacing bad modules, and rebalancing an OEM pack. What kind of life expectancy can I get from a job like this and is it even a recommended practice.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we still have the same problem, more than 20 years later :rolleyes:
     
  12. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    While there are owners who seem to enjoy constant "tinkering" with things, I'm not one of them.

    Battery theory and practical experience says that when one of more cells goes bad due to old age (as opposed to going bad early due to an isolated defect) then the rest of them will continue to fail on a regular basis.

    While "rebalancing" will get you some apparent additional life, there really is no way to KNOW if that is true or not because you can't know when it would have failed without the extra attention.

    In general, actual scientists who have studied stuff like this have concluded that the gain is not worth the time and money spent.

    A battery is a chemical process. Once the chemicals are gone or diluted or transformed into something else, there is NOTHING you can do to get them back.
     
  13. Daniel CW

    Daniel CW Junior Member

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    So I am guessing it all depends on budget as well, however what’s your thought of the memory effect in the modules that cycling can overcome, and give “increased capacity”
     
  14. Daniel CW

    Daniel CW Junior Member

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    Also if the science says that replacing bad modules is just a temporary plaster, then the theory of drive until you get a code is valid. Don’t go in and tinker, once the pack has reach it’s lifespan then it’s useless
     
  15. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    When done correctly, battery rebuilds can be a very cost effective solution. As always, repair work is a balance of time spent versus value. Everyone has their own set of skills, ability, goals and financial considerations. All those items need to be taken into consideration.

    Dorman HV Battery with a new lease on life..... | PriusChat

    I helped a local member a bit over a month ago with his battery. Did some cycling of the modules (4 or 5 iirc) and ended up replacing 4 modules. 2 of the 4 were replaced because they were too strong compared to the others. 1 was a failed module and 1 was a weak module that would have been a problem sometime down the road. Helped him install it. Days later he sent me the results of a life expectancy test performed with the Dr. Prius app. 112.16%. I would consider that a successful repair.

    Repairs can be performed.
     
    #15 TMR-JWAP, Mar 19, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  16. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    The type of cells used in hybrid cars do NOT exhibit any significant "memory effect", despite what the charger makers would have you believe.
     
  17. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    The science doesn't say that... Toyota profiteering says that! The science says NiMH need to be reconditioned periodically for a long lifespan and instead Toyota just set the computers to let pack continue to be used down at 50% capacity because the symptoms of a pack like that help to make their argument that rebuilding a pack is problematic. Truth is the science says that you can easily restore capacity from 50% back up to 96%, but ignoring that science is part of the misinformation effort to get everyone to accept you can't replace bad modules and have to spend the big bucks.

    Truth is spending $30 on another module every 3 months to 3 years is way more affordable by every measure if you do the work yourself. It's also a potential side income if you have friends with Prius who might need your help.

    Modules need to be similar in age/capacity... So your best option would be to buy chargers and 50w 12v bulbs and discharge each module to a deeper level each time threes and recharge, as well as replace modules. Sometimes you can get a used pack for from a junk yard for $50 and then you rebuild both packs so if one goes bad you have a good one on the shelf that takes an hour to swap.
     
    #17 PriusCamper, Mar 20, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  18. Daniel CW

    Daniel CW Junior Member

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    Thanks, so much contradictory information out here, so many techs saying don’t waste your time replacing modules, the pack has already reached it maximum life, it’s just a matter of time before all fail, just replace the whole pack, why waste money on modules. I just listened to a presentation by an engineer from Nuvant technology who make machines to refurbish modules and build packs and he spoke about the memory effect in modules and a poster above just threw cold water over that theory.
     
  19. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    If you like learning Prius pack rebuilds are awesome. But you add the fear related to high voltage with an old dog willing to not learn new tricks and it quickly turns into how many excuses can I come up with to not rebuild a pack. And there's a lot of good excuses to work with it as it is.
     
  20. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    Gen1 copies with no heat sink shields

    Rebuild repair success depends on how long the car is driven with P0A80, if you rebuild soon after getting the code rather than waiting months the rebuilt pack could potentially outlast the "replacement" copies. If you drive for months with code P0A80 expect the good modules to deteriorate and compromise the overall longevity of your rebuild.

    A couple years back I recall a former member on here bought two of those cheapie modules to test and he cycled them to death with his hobby charger very quickly, it was a disappointing outcome I can't remember exactly how many cycles it took to kill them but way less than one would hope.

    Anyway good luck with it

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