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I think we're going solar

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by jerrymildred, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Good insights, R-P. Thanks. Yes, lots of people do use batteries here. I don't need them enough to justify doubling the cost of the installation, though.

    Our electric company will pay for any excess electricity I produce at the end of the year, but it's only 3 cent per kWh compared to the approximately 12 cents they charge us to use their electricity. So it doesn't pay to install much more capacity than what you can use on average. And I don't mind the price difference since it's way cheaper than buying batteries and the other equipment needed to use them.
     
    #121 jerrymildred, Apr 27, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
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  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Tax dollars, or permit fee dollars?

    It must be tax dollars in your area, as he should have already surpassed the permit fee dollars for this project.
     
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  3. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Better than in CA where we pay $.20/kwh or more and only get ~3 cents for any over production.
    It is actually optimum here to only produce about 95% of what you use because you have to pay a minimum amount per month for usage else you pay a flat connect-to-the-grid fee of about $10/mon

    The real reason for getting a battery (that I don't have yet) is so you have power when the grid is down.

    Mike
     
    #123 3PriusMike, Apr 27, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  4. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Your electricity rates are just one item on a very long list of reasons I would never want to live in CA. Beautiful as it is, it would drive me so nuts they'd send me off to Berzerkley. LOL! But I did enjoy the months I worked there temporarily.

    In the 20-something years we've lived in FL, I don't think we've had more than 10 hours of blackout, if that. For whatever reason, this area has been amazingly solid. Since we moved back here from our sojourn in Honduras in 2014 we've only had a couple little blips. Our offices, 10 miles away from here on a different electric company, have had lots of extended outages.

    I have an inverter that I can connect to the car to run the fridge and some lights. That would probably suffice. But a small propane generator is on my list of things to look into. I'd just need enough to feed 220 to my panel. That would keep the solar working in the daytime and keep the fridge and some fans and light on at night. And cost a whole lot less than batteries.
     
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  5. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    If you just install solar then electricity prices don't really matter. :)

    Same for me here. A few 5 minute outages and one-time the neighborhood transformer failed and had to be replaced

    Are you sure you can do this? Did you plan for it when the solar was installed?
    You MUST be sure to disconnect from the grid when you back feed the electric panel else you could be putting power on a part of the grid where a utility worker is doing repairs. With a basic solar install the solar inverter disconnects when the grid goes down for this safety reason.

    Mike
     
  6. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    The generator would obviously necessitate a transfer switch. I have quite a few years of experience as an electrician and have a bachelor's degree in that field so it's not like this is my first rodeo. The main thing holding me back is the challenge of that xfer switch. The meter and breaker panel are back to back, so I'd need to coordinate with the electric company to run a new feed from the meter to the switch.
     
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  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Silly me. Looks like I need to work from home again tomorrow. The inspector and tech are coming sometime tomorrow. That's the claim anyway.

    At least I got my recording studio work done, so I can do the editing at home. PTL for cloud storage!!

    So far, only having it in daylight and not being able to store electricity isn't too bad. I only had to buy 6.8 kWh yesterday. Not sure what I used, but it was way more than that since the A/C ran most of the afternoon & evening and I charged the car.

    So tomorrow I'll see if that inspector has the brass to stand us up three times.
     
    #127 jerrymildred, Apr 28, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  8. R-P

    R-P Active Member

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    This is measured in minutes per year in the Netherlands, so not an issue. (about 20 minutes on average/year and incidence about once every 3 years (presumably for an hour then)).

    I've seen people do crazy things... so good to hear. Also BSc in EE and I see loads of bears on the road when having solar parallel to a hypothetical generator, hence me mentioning the features of the Victron in that regard. Not sure if your solar inverter syncs to the generator (it won't if it is a few Hertz off) and what happens if the inverter produces too much. In case of generator or inverter running of off the car, it may be best to disable the solar. But as I understand it, you don't have ready made plans for this anyway.


    Who makes these suicide cords???

    male to male extention cord.jpg
     
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  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    In the US?

    A few very brave merchants.

    They're in very short supply and hard to get for 2 reasons:

    1. Lawyers.
    2. We have some parts of the US whose power infrastructure is very substandard in terms of what the UN refers to as a 'developed' nation.

    I grew up in the middle of the US and currently live in the Southeast.
    We have very robust power but it can sometimes be interrupted briefly by the strong thunderstorms we all know and love, or not-so-briefly by larger storms.
    We suffered from a late season Category 2 storm last year but the neighborhood I live in has buried utilities and we didn't lose power at all. Some people did though, so even in my part of the country it is not unheard of for someone to foolishly use a male-male extension cord to power parts of a house.

    It's extraordinarily dangerous AND selfish....but humans have a shockingly poor sense of risk assessment (see what I did there?)


    I have a 110v dual-fuel generator for storm outages that suits my needs for now....which has never been out of the box.

    Yeah. I know.
    I need to OP-test it...... :cautious:
     
    #129 ETC(SS), Apr 28, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    much simpler to prevent backfeeding the grid w/an interlock. Can't backfeed the grid - if the plate covers the generator's breaker;
    20191021_150642-1.jpg

    Turn the main off, and only then will your interlock plate drop down so you can throw the back-feed breaker.
    It's the K.I.S.S. method - to give several of your brakers some generator power - while protecting some poor lineman down the street from getting fried. But being in the business, I'm sure it's nothing new for those who've done it for a living
    .
     
    #130 hill, Apr 28, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    The whole generator thing is purely hypothetical. That would be something I'd not spend much time researching except in the unlikely event that I got serious about it. Most likely, I'll leave things as they are since it should serve me well 99.9999% of the time. ;)
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    ah!
    This is a fun topic for the electrically inclined. Our 5.5kW 100% duty cycle Honda inverter - while hooked onto our main panel - day time - PV running DOES sync. Our 2 PV inverters are each rated for 4kW. The pv's inverters do NOT run - unless they detect 60htz (any small amt current). Our Honda runs (auto throttles down to minimun RPM's) faster only when it detects load increases. So if the house is drawing 2kW's - and if the PV is capable 2, or 5, or 7 or more kW's (turning on sunny-ness) ..... the Honda won't rev-up. But if the house is pulling 4 or 5 kW's - & PV is only generating ONE kW .... then the Honda ramps up just enough to meet the extra demand above what the PV provide.
    With daytime solar running, our Honda fuel supply lasts 2X as long - as it's often running at minimum throttle level.
    This experiment was done knowing full well I might blow up our PV inverters. Risk taking - a symptom of Attention Deficit. -

    .
     
    #132 hill, Apr 28, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  13. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    That's pretty much how I was expecting it to work. Thanks for being the guinea pig. :D If I ever do launch into a project like that, I'll try to do a little research first since I really don't want to blow up anything. Actually, the inverters & controller have a lot of protections built in so if it didn't work, it would probably just not work. Since our electricity is so dependable here, I may never get to it.
     
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  14. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Woo hoo!!!
    The inspection is finally done and passed. Next step is waiting on Duke Energy to get over here with a net metering electric meter.

    In the meantime, the panels are providing well over half my power even without being able to generate at night or to generate and store more than I use at any given moment.

    Also, they got me set up with the Enphase software for monitoring. It's mostly a way to track production and use. Nice in that regard but no real-time info.
    Here's what the total energy screen for today looks like at the moment. The reports it can make should be really helpful in predicting the next electric bill.
    Screen Shot 2021-04-29 at 5.06.22 PM.png

    It shows no production till the sun came up. (DUH!) From that point on, it has pretty much produced what we've consumed although it seems to always be a little behind the demand. Later this evening, as the sun gets lower, it'll gradually become unable to fully supply the air conditioner which keeps on running till this masonry heat sink we call a house cools off. Of course all that will change with the new electric meter.

    Since I don't yet have the new electric meter, I won't get credit for the little bit of exported energy, but at least, so far today, I've only bought 3.3 of the 12.3 kWh we've used so far today.

    Edit to add odd factoid:
    Since the lack of a net metering meter is throttling production, the system seems to favor one panel over the others. So one of the twenty is producing over 3 times more than any of its buddies. Weird. But the numbers in this picture give an idea what it could could have been doing if allowed to go full out.
    Screen Shot 2021-04-29 at 5.12.08 PM.png
     
    #134 jerrymildred, Apr 29, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  15. Merkey

    Merkey Active Member

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    How many months of the year do you need A/C?
     
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  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Twelve if you count heat pump season. However there are a few months when we just run it a few minutes a day to dry out the humidity.

    Edit to add:
    Right now, demand is moderate. Next month it will increase and by August the AC will be running about 7-8 hours a day. That's why I'm in such a hurry to get the new meter in place and start storing electricity for the summer.
     
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  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    No real-time? o_O You are missing out, maybe they haven't yet set up everything available:

    upload_2021-4-29_14-25-59.png
     
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  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    It looks like you're using EnlightenManager. I just have the free Enlighten app. I see that it's $9.99 per month or $249 for lifetime. Looks like it might be worth a try to see if I want to buy it.
     
  19. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    There's a fee? :eek:

    8 years so far, and no-one has told me. I don't know if I'm grandfathered, or what.

    Looking closer, Yes, it is Enlighten Manager, on my PC. I have two separate apps, Enlighten and EnlightenManager, on my phone, but haven't used either for a long time, haven't updated stored credentials after a login change.

    A separate Envoy module console, which talks to each microinverter and to the internet, does display real-time power output and how many modules it is reaching via powerline signaling. Modules go silent in the dark. It was also $$ enough back then, that lifetime service could have been rolled in.
     
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  20. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Great to hear. Looking at that last photo it almost looks like there is an issue with that cyan colored panel.
     
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