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Prius Battery Replacement Kit (GenII/GenIII) with NEW custom cells

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by 2k1Toaster, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. John Dadmun

    John Dadmun Junior Member

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    2k1Toaster - is there a recommended aftermarket 12v battery approach for the Prius 2nd gen that might be of particular advantage when in line with your HV battery? I had determined to go with a new, stock Toyota battery but then, why not ask the question. Closest (WRJ Toyota) parts guy said 220.
     
  2. ThatOnePrius

    ThatOnePrius Junior Member

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    Installed on Dec 1 2017. Was hoping it would last longer. Throwing code P0a80, pretty sure one pack of the 3 is probably bad. I'll know more when I disassemble the battery pack.

    Looking into rebuilding with Gen 3 or Gen 4 cells.
     
  3. R-P

    R-P Active Member

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    One of Toasters packs? That would be disappointing and unexpected. Keep us posted as to what is wrong exactly.
     
  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Nope any battery will work
     
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  5. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    It would be. We've had a handful of people come back months later. The root cause in every single case, has been lack of a torque wrench during install and not installing the terminals to at least the proper torque. If you go above the proper torque, that's great. Until you shear the threads off. If you are under-spec, it WILL loosen over time.

    One guy had what looked to be a failure, said he used a torque wrench during install. Sent a free battery next day. He went to install it, and the bolt on the module that was complaining was loose. Like rattle loose, not even hand tight. This is when he discovered that the $10 torque wrench from Harbor Freight is pretty, but not pretty accurate which can lead to this happening. It's better than nothing, but it is still not proper. Torqued properly and balanced in the car over a month, back to new. I told him to throw that wrench away, don't know if that happened. Sent back the free battery as he didn't need it.

    I am expecting a failure, a real failure, sometime soon. We're around 4 years of on-road public beta with a strange period of self-discharge for most people who didn't drive for 6 months, a year, more. Statistically we should have a couple bad packs out there at this moment and just don't know about it because of the volume sold and way we test. So far so good.
     
  6. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Dealing with COVID mileage cars I noticed something significant. If I keep the 12 V on a charger/maintainer the HV battery charge level stays constant for a very long time, especially when doing some ECU programming. If I don't the charge level of the HV battery can drop at a significant rate. Better keep those 12 Vs healthy/happy...

    moto g(7) power ?
     
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  7. Aegean

    Aegean Active Member

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    My understanding is that the 12v battery circuit is not connected to the HV circuit when car is off. The HV battery rate of discharge should not be affected by the 12v charge status.
     
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  8. ThatOnePrius

    ThatOnePrius Junior Member

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    I was one of the first in the beta testing. It was honestly a great alternative to the playing the whack a mole game with using old gen 2 cells. I drove the car all around the state of Tx, even been to Colorado. I did notice the last few weeks when I park the car the battery was up in the high blue range. When I would take off the next day, it would drop to pink pretty fast. Yesterday, I drove to the store and when I was backing into the driveway, the Red Triangle of Death appeared. It's been raining like crazy here, when it drys up I'll tear the pack down and see what is going on. I wouldn't know where to buy any of the cells in a 3 pack.
     
  9. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Torque wrench during install? We can send a new one if it's a real issue. I'd like to see the failure. We have made 3 versions since the one in your car but your failure if not installation related is strange. Is all of Texas and Colorado like a work vehicle doing lots of miles? Or just annual trips?
     
  10. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Programming is done with Ig-ON but READY-OFF. Try leaving the car with Ig-ON with or without something charging the 12 V. You may be just as surprised as I was, and I have a LiFePO4 12 V that can handle abuse...

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  11. ThatOnePrius

    ThatOnePrius Junior Member

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    More of annual trips. I only drive the car less then 8,000 a year. I use a AC Delco digital torque wrench and torqued the bus bar nuts to 50 inch lbs. My prius is an outside car and the sun beats down half the day, during the evening it's tree shaded. I don't mind paying for another cell pack if that was the problem. I'll know more when I have it taken apart and for lose nuts, corrosion and check voltages ect.
     
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  12. ThatOnePrius

    ThatOnePrius Junior Member

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    I was able to get the battery pulled, all the nuts were still torqued nothing loose. Absolutely no corrosion(high quality bus bars). From the ECU going back #9 voltage was 15.89 all other cells were 16.00v. I assume the one that is measuring 15.89 of the 3 cells are bad or weak. How can I purchase 1 single 3 cell pack to replace the module and how much will it run? These are my finding let me know what you think?
     
  13. donbright

    donbright Active Member

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    I have about 10,000 miles on mine, Installed just about 2 years ago in July 2019. Weather here goes from 0 F to 120 F and I drove it mostly on 5 mile trips, a few 200 mile trips, and during Covid only once a week or so for short hops. I have been recording data on my batteries at Vehiviz and the latest data looks pretty much like the data I got back about two years ago. Voltage difference of 0.1 between lowest and highest is pretty normal. Actually I don't think I have ever seen all the battery blocks at the exact same voltage, they are all off from each other by about 0.01 ... although this will be when the car is "ON" since It's measuring through a BAFX dongle using the Torque Pro app
     
    #873 donbright, Jun 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
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  14. drone13

    drone13 Active Member

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    I installed the NPB pack yesterday and found the installation easy and straight forward. This was my first time doing a Prius pack, but the instructions Nick provided were clear and concise and the job was completed in about 5 hrs. Of course it was 100F and I took quite a few breaks, but it was not difficult.

    My old pack never reached the point of throwing any codes or RTOD, but going up long, steep grades was a problem. It would go to 2 bars, starting from 6 bars, and the ICE screaming to get up the grade with A/C off at 60MPH. I've done the same drive with the new pack and it was effortless driving at 72MPH with A/C on Auto (mostly running at MAX) in 100F heat. The pack went from 6 bars to 4 bars during the climb with the ICE running at much lower RPM and max battery temp was 109F. I had to keep easing off the accelerator or the speed would just continue to increase even with the steepness of the climb.

    I do need to recalibrate my foot now since it take so little throttle angle to achieve the desired speed. I find my self having to watch my speed closely now to avoid speeding. I know, first world problem, but it does say a lot about how a new battery can dramatically improve confidence and drivability of a old Prius (07MY).

    For me this was a very good upgrade and I finally have confidence in the car. I was so unconfident I upped my AAA roadside assistance to cover 200 mile tows, just in case, because of the old pack. If I didn't have that long uphill grade several times per week I probably wouldn't have changed the pack until it started throwing codes, but now that it's done this is a significant upgrade and I'm really pleased with the results. BTW, the original modules all had the date stamp of 5/19/07 so it looks like it was an original pack for the car and not some reman'd pack. I've only had the car since 12/20 and never had the cover off the pack, so I always wondered if it was original or not and now I know.

    While I would have liked to see the results of Jack's lithium pack before a purchasing decision (non beta tester results), the timing just didn't work out for that with the multiple delays in bringing it to market. No blame on Jack and his company. Its got to be very difficult to get product during Covid times and ramp up a new business. All in all I'm quite happy with the NPB results and will drive happy for the foreseeable future with a new pack. Anyone with a marginal pack, even without codes, should seriously consider a new pack whether that's OEM, NPB, or Jack's lithium (once it get into users hands and cars and has proven itself). Just a dramatic difference and a big upgrade. Well worth the $1600.
     
  15. DigDoug

    DigDoug Junior Member

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    Replaced mine in 2019 with a mileage of 171269 and so far I have had not one problem, mileage right now is 212362. I am pretty sure that if I do that I will be a returning customer I am not expecting to do so though
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Maybe you could source those pre-set, T-handle torque wrench, tailored for the terminal nut size/torque, include one in each kit? Or they're too pricey to throw in? Anyway, something like this:

    upload_2021-7-25_14-14-0.png
     
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  17. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    I've thought about it. The cheap ones that wouldn't add too much cost aren't particularly better than blindly guessing.

    Because of the Orange Monster in the US I have been forced to pay an extra 25% tariff on every battery I bring in. I have not passed any of this cost onto the consumer. At this point the government makes more per pack than I do. Shipping costs have risen nearly double with the pandemic. I've always said this is a business to keep Prii on the road. Not a ticket to being a billionaire. I welcome all batteries that keep Prii out of the junkyard and on the road and that's why I do this.
     
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  18. Another

    Another Senior Member

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    I think you’re forgetting that the new guy is the one KEEPING the tariffs. He could remove them immediately if he wanted. But let’s just blame the other guy. It’s so much more PC.

    Moreover …
    Is it really too difficult for a manufacturer to build them in the USA? Probably so once one has to deal with pesky nuisances like pollution, OSHA and unions. Much easier to hide those costs by foreign sourcing them.
     
  19. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Hey 2K...the link in your signature is giving me issues. Might want to check into it when you get a chance.
     
  20. Moving Right Along

    Moving Right Along Senior Member

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    I believe the main impediment to building more batteries in the US is the availability of minerals needed. In order to build more batteries, we would need to make a concentrated effort to mine more of the rare earth metals. While they’re found all over the world, most of the mines for them are in China.