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SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  2. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

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    Does the "acquired immunity" from catching covid work? I don't know. I do know that I just finished a long phone call with my depressed Aunt. She just got back from the 6th funeral for covid victims this year. All her friends are anti-vaxxers and all the dead were not vaccinated. She changed her position on vaccines when her neighbor took a month to die early this year. She and her husband sought out the vaccine that week.

    She believes that some of the dead had contracted covid early last year, though they were never diagnosed. A common claim was that "when it's my time, it will take me."

    So very sad. Everyone I socialize with has been vaccinated and wear the masks as required / recommended. None, not one, has contracted the disease. I'll stick with what works.
     
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  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm glad insights have been gained. I have long said that a change of political opinion often mean a painful experience. Sad, it is how our species works.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that same media has been reporting everything the government has said about boosters up until now.

    even on the same day, they had another article quoting fauci, walenski and biden on boosters.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it seems that the white house wants to be prepared, and the cdc doesn't want to risk getting caught flat footed if the vaccine induced immune response does not produce required anti bodies.
    the difficulty seems to be a an incomplete understanding of the t and b cells role, and measuring their effectiveness when antibody levels go down.
     
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    didn't even know I had it early last year, but the Red Cross Is Still Loving the antibodies when they take a pint of plasma during donations.
    as others say though - ymmv.
    .
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Cited article

    Estimated US Infection- and Vaccine-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Seroprevalence Based on Blood Donations, July 2020-May 2021 | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network

    This was a very large study throughout USA. The only caution I would add is that it was necessarily done on volunteer blood donors. It is possible that this is not a random sample of all adults. Three % of eligible blood donors do it, and one might suppose that vaccine-hesitant people are unlikely to it.

    Now don't get all pissed at me. This is an excellent large study with important and statistically defensible results. But blood donors are a self-selected group and that can't be ignored here.
     
    #4589 tochatihu, Sep 4, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it wouldn't surprise me if a respectable number of anti covid vaxxers were blood donors, but i have no idea. it isn't as politicized, and you don't have kennedy et al railing against it.
    when you look at cases and hospitalizations geographically, it makes sense. herd immunity sounds good, but is difficult to achieve in practice.

    we're getting closer though, thanks to red states.

    the other thing they mentioned was that most of the study to date is pre delta variant. idk how good those antibodies are at fighting it, but the study continues.
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I could be more explicit, or dreary, and say that a study like #4588 #4589 would be impossible to conduct with a truly representative sampling of the population. A substantial fraction of population would refuse to participate.

    ==
    It's funny, in a way. I and my familiars can study animals, draw their blood, whatever. We develop elegant sampling schemes to ensure representative sampling of populations. Key is we don't need to ask their permission :D
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    don't tell pita
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    They already know bro.

    People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA)

    Specializes in lab animals (a small fraction of mammals) and farm animals (an even smaller fraction). That leaves almost all animal species available. You gotta catch them, of course, not always trivial.

    We usta trap various species of desert rodents with live traps. Take them out next morning, ID, mark in some way, let them go. It is actually an effective training exercise for Mickey& friends. They get free food and a night without risk of snake predation. Some of them got 'trap happy' and became consistent clients.

    Sampling is not trivial, and becomes more complicated when more neurons are involved.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    do you buy the francis collins criticism?
     
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    OMG, which one? Dr. Collins has been in the news many times.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the one in your link
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    michael collins is the chancellor of umass med, common name
     
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    It could be you refer to this:

    Peta Collins.png

    But I regret to inform that 'certain forces' do not consider it safe for me to read Miami Herald.
     
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ah, well, they just want him out. and i'm wondering if they would want anyone out who doesn't discontinue animal experiments.
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    PETA has wanted F. Collins 'out' since he got 'in'. 1993-2008 Director of Natl Genomics Inst within NIH, 2009-now Director of NIH.

    The former may have not ruffled as many feathers. NIH via grantees does a lot of biomedical research on 'animal models'. I am not assigned the task of deciding how much of that should happen, or be replaced by 'organ on a chip' or other alternatives.

    According to aspiring cardiac surgeons (3-rd hand info) there is no better training than on the hearts of beagles. I am not assigned the task...

    ==
    But all this (and Collin's theology, which also gets lots of attention) is not very related to COVID. He has been 'somewhat variable' on COVID lab leak, so we could go there I guess. I mean, if you're really bored.