SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

So true, and over 95% of those reported deaths were from patients with only 2 or more comorbidities.

 

A large controlled study was just completed in Bangladesh.

Conclusion: masks work in reducing the chance of catching Covid.

Cloth masks work too though medical masks are more effective, and fitting is important. I personally wear a cloth mask (masks are required at work) with a light pm2.5 filter insert (there are thick ones that hinder breathing) and I have a clip to tie it in the back, to save my ears and to ensure a tight fit. I have a bunch and wear a clean mask every day.

 

likely 90% of the masks the average person wears aren't helping much if material and fit are that important.
but it may depend on the situation, and how much virus is in the air. plus, who is doing the wearing, and who is not.
scientists aren't helping us much in this matter so far.

 

No problem as I have no sympathy for you or your lies. Go maskless, go without vaccination, and live your fantasies. As Deming once said,

"You don't need to change – your survival is not mandatory."​

If someone should foolishly follow your advice, they deserve a painful death not able to breath. In effect, a slow strangulation as your lungs no longer work. The choice is yours as is the risks and subsequent consequences. It will also take care of your family and friends ... too.

Bob Wilson

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

Sure a single virus without a 'snot' droplet might get through a mask. But the aqueous droplets is what keeps the virus particles from being 'denatured.' I would happily volunteer to be a 'lab rat' in a totally dry, chamber that has the cough output throughly dried, ~0-10% humidity.

Oxygen is terribly reactive and given the small size of COVID-19, without an aqueous shield, it will denature almost instantly.

Bob Wilson

 

I can ride Bob's train of thought part of the way here, but this is a station or two past my stop.

 

i'm just going by the cdc and the study. in my mind, things work far differently than in reality

 

Leaving aside the political issues, I have a problem with a science based presumption that.... "Likewise, we know there can be positive effects of masks, and the negative effects are minor."
Unless the "scientists" involved are geologists, or perhaps we're talking about for-real PPE.

Humans are social animals.
Facial expressions in communication are fairly non-trivial, and I say this as a person who is very pro-vaccine (the science on them is fairly settled, and the math is really REALLY easy!)

If you want to know why so many people do not have full faith and confidence in either of the last two administrations - just look at the messaging.

The vaccines are safe and effective.
BUT.....
If you don't wear a mask, avoid public gatherings, and dare to travel about at will - then you're a moron....AND you're gonna die....horribly.

So....
In the US, it's a little tough to effectively study this because of the nature of our politics and lack of government controlled medicine, but there are mountains of data available to study from abroad where people are less individually free, and the medical treatment modalities are more strictly controlled.

The "science" on face masks outside of hospital surgical suites or similar areas?
Not so much a settled issue...given the varying "conclusions."

As a libertarian leaning person, I'm very happy to let businesses eschew serving people without face diapers, shoes, shirts, etc.
I nearly always wear masks in these settings because people in 2021 treat them like crucifixes, and it's a fairly painless and a fairly nice thing to do....most particularly for the few we have left who are actually working out there.

 

Surgeons have been using surgical masks, for some time now, but what do they know…

 

Sorry but I live in bordering Gulf of Mexico state surrounded by COVID-19 failing states. I have lost patience with the anti-masking, anti-vaccinated. Hospitals are overloaded with few ICU beds and fatigued medical service. Hospitals are canceling both elective and impacting emergency medical care. My patience with the foolish is at an end.

Bob Wilson

 

I would not wish an agonizing asphyxiation on anyone. That’s a horrible way to die. There are no crimes terrible enough for that sentence.

 

We agree. There are proposals to use nitrogen gas for capital punishment.

Bob Wilson

 

One of my neighboring states, with an equally low vaccination rate, earlier this week activated “crisis standards of care." It currently applies to northern districts, but a national TV network reported instead from a southern district.

"The move allows hospitals to allot scarce resources like intensive care unit rooms to patients most likely to survive and make other dramatic changes to the way they treat patients. Other patients will still receive care, but they may be placed in hospital classrooms or conference rooms rather than traditional hospital rooms or go without some life-saving medical equipment."

"The state’s crisis guidelines are complex, and give hospitals a legal and ethical template to use while rationing care.

Under the guidelines, patients are given priority scores based on a number of factors that impact their likelihood of surviving a health crisis.

Those deemed in most in need of care and most likely to benefit from it are put on priority lists for scarce resources like ICU beds.

Others in dire need but with lower chances of surviving will be given “comfort care” to help keep them pain-free whether they succumb to their illnesses or recover.

Other patients with serious but not life-threatening medical problems will face delays in receiving care until resources are available."

 

That would be a cruel way to go; Argon should be used instead since the person will be unconscious before any distress registers. According to https://www.csb.gov/assets/1/20/SB-Nitrogen-6-11-03.pdf?13883 nitrogen would have the following symptoms.

The person will experience:
Atmospheric OxygenConcentration (%) - Possible Results
20.9 Normal
19.0 Some unnoticeable adverse physiological effects
16.0 Increased pulse and breathing rate, impaired thinking and
attention, reduced coordination
14.0 Abnormal fatigue upon exertion, emotional upset, faulty
coordination, poor judgment
12.5 Very poor judgment and coordination, impaired
respiration that may cause permanent heart damage,
nausea, and vomiting
<10 Inability to move, loss of consciousness, convulsions,
death

 

I tend to agree rather strongly with this. I got a call 12 hours before I was to report to the hospital for knee replacement that the hospital was shutting down "elective" surgeries due to lack of space thanks to people who are afraid of the vaccine but not afraid of the even more untested (and not nearly as effective) treatment. So here I sit in pain, not from surgery recovery, but from a knee that's seems to be getting worse by the day. After busting my hump at work to get two months ahead on radio program production, I nearly threw my phone at the wall.

IMHO, if you don't want the preventative, you should be ready for the consequences if they happen to you. Not because I'm in pain, but because thousands are in pain and the health workers are on the verge of exhaustion. But we now live in a society where personal consequences are no longer acceptable.

It's not a crime to not get vaccinated. It's just a foolish decision. Our daughter asphyxiated as a result of cystic fibrosis. Our son drowned in his own blood. Also CF. Horrible ways to die. It sounds cruel, but perhaps people would make a more informed decision if they had to see a video of that sort of thing and then see how they feel about rolling the dice.

 

not to tangent off of our thoroughly unscientific mask debate, but i thought this was an interesting article.
scientists-egos-key-barrier-to-progress-covid-vaccine-pioneer-katalin-kariko

 

To keep the digression going, egos and pride among scientists and engineers have always been major impediments to scientific and engineering progress. There was huge resistance to hand washing between patients in the 19th century despite the obvious evidence that not washing was killing patients left & right. In fact, pride is what got Lucifer booted out of heaven and Adam & Eve booted from the garden. And is the root cause of almost every problem we face today.

 

There is a big difference between ‘wishing’ death on someone and not having sympathy for people that risk their own lives as well as others.

I don’t wish that people that believe gravity isn’t real, die.
However, I have no sympathy for such a person (barring mental illness) that jumps off a cliff.

 

...Enough to use REAL surgical masks?
..Enough to know that they do not need to wear a mask when they consult with the patient before and after the surgery?
...Enough to know that a 6-year-old playing in a public park "might" not need one, and even in a world where a child's diaper goes over both ends of the kid, the top one will be about as leaky and ineffective as the bottom one if....it's made out of cloth.

Masks are a tool that other tools are using for 'othering' political opponents.
There are obvious examples on BOTH 'teams.'
Pick your hero.
Pick your scientific study.

As indicated above, I mask up in rare situations where I 'face' those who are forced to wear them for one reason or other, but other than that if people do not have full faith and confidence in the vaccines and other precautions that THEY take (and retake...) then perhaps THEY should hunker down in their homes and wait for their government checks and Amazon deliveries.
People on the muscle end of Big Phone tend to be in fairly good physical shape, so vaccinations rates break out along predictable groups----IF you watch BOTH kinds of fake news.
That means that the older 4-wall techs (like me) are more attentive to being vaxed - or? they get the 'vid.
I've seen both.
Actually? I've BEEN both...but then I got the bug before vaccines were widely available.

@Capitol Punishment....I'm formally against the practice, but it seems to me that you need nothing fancier or more expensive than CO.
There's an entire industry at work attaching CO monitors to things (like my generator, garage, etc) to keep people from ACCIDENTLY kicking off from breathing the stuff.

I'm as pleased as any other father and grandfather might be when some of the predators are compelled to 'ride the needle' because I'm as hypocritical and sinful as any other human....
However (comma!!!) in a world where inmates PREFER to be housed on death row so that they do not have to deal with cell-mates, G-Pop, and the joys of being a VICTIM, I'm fine with the universal abolition of capitol punishment, as a Romans 12:19 thing......