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SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Alden et al 2022 cite Zhang et al 2021 (reference 25) which I had not read before. Zhang et al demonstrated that COVID infection can cause viral genetic material to be incorporated into human cells. This is unpleasant news (to me) because those cells have become human-virus chimeras.

    It is freaky stuff, but it builds on a large literature that viral infections leave behind some genetic material after the disease resolves. Known for other viruses, and there demonstrated for this corona virus. I should say that we already had good reasons to avoid this disease, by means extensively discussed here. Becoming a host for human-virus chimera cells adds another reason. I mean, c'mon guys, ick!

    So thanks to Alden et al. for bring this to my attention. I guess.
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    It's an intriguing line of research that will likely continue
    .
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    An I getting through to you? If Alden et al gets broad attention, it is because people do not want their DNA altered by any external means.

    Alden demonstrated this happens, to a cancer cell line by exposure to mRNA in vitro. We do not want that.

    Earlier, Zhang et al showed genetic alteration by corona virus in actual human infections. We still do not want that, right?

    So, if any are to be stigmatized here, it would be those raising fear of a hypothetical, while that same fear applies really, already, for this viral infection itself.
     
    #5763 tochatihu, Mar 4, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2022
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  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Human chimeras got 'sexed up' in HG Wells' The Island of Dr. Moreau. They got really sexed up in 1996 movie of the same name.

    It was not, I think, Marlon Brando's best work.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The actual study is here; CIMB | Free Full-Text | Intracellular Reverse Transcription of Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 In Vitro in Human Liver Cell Line | HTML

    They explained their choice of concentrations in the discussion, "The choice of BNT162b2 concentrations used in this study warrants explanation. BNT162b2 is administered as a series of two doses three weeks apart, and each dose contains 30 µg of BNT162b2 in a volume of 0.3 mL, which makes the local concentration at the injection site at the highest 100 µg/mL [31]. A previous study on mRNA vaccines against H10N8 and H7N9 influenza viruses using a similar LNP delivery system showed that the mRNA vaccine can distribute rather nonspecifically to several organs such as liver, spleen, heart, kidney, lung, and brain, and the concentration in the liver is roughly 100 times lower than that of the intra-muscular injection site [38]. In the assessment report on BNT162b2 provided to EMA by Pfizer, the pharmacokinetic distribution studies in rats demonstrated that a relatively large proportion (up to 18%) of the total dose distributes to the liver [26]. We therefore chose to use 0.5, 1, and 2 μg/mL of vaccine in our experiments on the liver cells."

    In corporate mRNA might be too strong. The study did show the cells reverse transcribing the mRNA into DNA, but did not find evidence of that DNA then being incorporated into the cell genome.
     
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  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    From Alden et al, I also learned that COVID-19 mRNA vaccine BNT162b2 encodes the entire spike protein. Did not know that. It seems to bear on design of subsequent vaccines aimed at omicron variant, which has tinkered with the spike.
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    It is a Nigerian operation:

    Address: 14 Edem Ekpenyong Street By Akim Timber Market, Calabar, Cross River State 540241 Nigeria

    That article starts with:
    "ER Editor: The report from The Epoch Times below ..."

    Does everyone here remember previous discussions of The Epoch Times?
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Is there a study showing the relative impact of COVID on the DNA of the dead DNA versus the living?

    If you live with DNA modifications but die without ... I'll take living.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Searching on title of Alden et al publication shows many media outlets mentioning it. I am not concerned if (some many all of) those outlets have 'motivations'. Only that they should describe Alden et al accurately.

    ==
    I saw nothing in Alden et al that was untrue or unsupported by prior work. It may have 'stretched' a bit by mentioning that this vaccine was not tested for teratogenicity etc., while not also mentioning that other (urgently needed) vaccines are not so tested, either. It is up to journal reviewers and journal editor to weigh whether damping down spin outweighs getting new results 'out there'. They made decisions. There it is.
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Bob #5769 seems to ask whether COVID mortalities are more 'chimera' than COVID survivors. Looks like a blind alley to me. Sorry.

    First, we seem to know that COVID mostly kills those with co-morbitities, and those with immune systems inclined towards cytokine storms, and those who receive inadequate medical treatments. Second, test of hypothesis needs DNA from several organs in both groups; and analyzed deeply, by somebody, at somebodies' expense. The medical community (I think) is either still working on saving current infections, or devising improved treatments. Ain't got no time to ask whether those departed are more chimera.

    It could be basis for a sci-fi story. Virus X makes human chimeras up to an interesting level, while virus Y breaks the bank. Ima nota gonna write it. But there it is.
     
  12. Here are three videos from Dr. Been that explains the research using some colorful pictures that I found easier to understand:

    1st: Pfizer Vaccine Becomes DNA in Liver Cells. (In-vitro Swedish Study)
    2nd: DETAILS - Pfizer Vaccine Becomes DNA in The Human Liver Cells Huh7. (In-vitro Swedish Study)
    3rd: Your Questions About Pfizer Vaccine Becomes DNA in The Liver Cells Study

    In the third video, if I understand it correctly, Dr. Been posits that when the immune system detects the foreign integrated spike DNA, repair enzymes will either fix the cell, or a signal will be sent to the cell to kill it. Obviously as this study is in vitro, the immune system is not examined.

    So, my questions: is this DNA integration only supposed to be temporary by design? Also, what is the long-term impact of spike-integrated DNA on CD4/CD8? We're not looking at a vax-AIDS pandemic in the future, are we, I mean, it just doesn't seem right to believe that. Still seems like there are too many unknowns here.
     
    #5772 Deleted member 111882, Mar 4, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2022
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I am not privileged to watch Dr. Been's youtube videos. If that doctor wrote reviewed journal articles, I might be compelled to read them.

    For your questions, mRNA (and other) vaccines are not intended to change DNA of non-immune-system cells. Temporarily or otherwise. All are intended to make immune-system cells reactive to COVID antigens that appear. Without the inconvenience of actually having a COVID infection.

    There may be a connection between COVID and AIDS. In the sense that someone(s) with AIDS might have been involved with multiple changes that made Omicron variant more infective. I've nothing to say beyond that.

    If journal articles address vax-AIDS, or whatever it is Dr. Been is saying, links posted here would be appreciated.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The study did not show the vaccine mRNA get integrated into the genomic DNA. It was just shown the mRNA got sequenced into DNA. Getting inserted into the genome of the cell is another step, which isn't easy.

    Now, the vaccine mRNA should not be getting transcribed into DNA. However, the cell line this study used is far from what you call a healthy normal cell. Huh7 is human liver cancer cells. Its claim to fame is in allowing us to grow hepatitis C virus in lab, which meant the ability to better research cures and treatments for that disease.

    Huh7 cells have 55 to 63 chromosomes. Humans have 46. The cells, like many cancer ones, already have wonky DNA. When it comes to seeing if an agent has an affect on a cells DNA coding system, Huh7 probably isn't the best candidate.

    https://huh7.com/
     
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My posting should have been more clear. I don't see evidence of wide spread modification of human DNA by either mRNA or SARS-CoV-2 and its variants. There is abundant evidence of lung, cardio, and brachial changes from the virus. There are a small number, <1%, of mRNA side-effects: Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Frequently Asked Questions | FDA. These are well documented and easily identified and treated.

    Misinformation about COVID and treatments remains rampant and is often used by the unscrupulous to fleece the uneducated and foolish. PriusChat has our own collection of false posters ... mostly self-corralled into a pair of threads. Like shooting fish in a barrel, they are exceptionally easy to become the butt of jokes. Speaking of which, I'm impressed by sewage samples mapping COVID hot spots.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #5775 bwilson4web, Mar 5, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2022
  16. I appreciate the helpful Q&A, since we are all in this together and I myself am learning and trying to understand the implications. I would rather plead genuine ignorance and ask than do what I see some people doing on their websites, “worst fears confirmed…” doesn’t make sense. It does make me wonder though, why the USA has not readily adopted Novavax or Covaxin, since I believe these do not seem to sequence into DNA and instead use a more traditional approach to vaccination. I would imagine a more traditional approach than mRNA would have circumvented the “DNA” concerns and possibly a much lower frequency of reports to VAERS/Yellow Card.

    Dr. Been commented in detail on the article itself and on other Qs in a live chat (3rd link). Nothing he said was about vax-AIDS, that was my own “What if” question.
     
    #5776 Deleted member 111882, Mar 5, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2022
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  17. privilege

    privilege Active Member

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    839 days are gone,

    since this fear was accepted as "my new normal" for some people.
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    upload_2022-3-5_10-8-47.png

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There is no evidence of mRNA vaccines getting converted into DNA in normal cells. This is the first study to show it happening in cancer cells, which do not have normal DNA mechanics to begin with, or they wouldn't be cancer cells.

    The US does have a traditional vaccine for COVID available. It is J&J's. It had an elevated risk of blood clots in women, which lead to it being briefly pulled from the market. So the traditional vaccine has a less safe record than the mRNA ones.
     
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  20. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    mRNA vaccine could be designed to transcribe to DNA, if they also code reverse transcriptase. Do they? Shrugs. That's what HIV uses....

    REVVL V+ 5G ?