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Gen 2 P0420 P0446 C1259 C1310 HV charging problem?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by I_auto_know..., May 28, 2022.

  1. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    Greetings--

    My name is Daniel. Although "I auto know", I don't, really. I just joined the chatgroup to appeal for some help and guidance, but I've benefitted many times over the years from the wonderful wisdom and expertise of this group. So thank you all for your help, past and present. I'm in metropolitan DC.

    We have grown to love our '04 Gen 2 so much, we got another one! an '08. Turns out the oil burns oil, so we've been using the good ole '04, we got with 60,000 back in 2007 or so, and now has 250,000 on it. We have had so little trouble with it that we have not had to do much maintenance on it! (The '08 had about 150,000 on it when we got it a few years ago.) We use the car for food rescue work, taking food pushed off the shelves to local food banks, maybe 1,000 pounds a month.

    A few years back we got a red triangle, and a local "doctor Prius" fellow, who actually was a medical doctor, told us that our traction battery was in pretty good shape. He had a laptop with Techstream on it. He's no longer available.

    The Prius dealer then said "You have so many codes, it is time to trade it in!" H'mph!

    We ran the other Prius for a while, and let the '04 sit. We had put some catalytic cleaner through it for the then P0420 code it was showing, and the red triangle went away, and never came back for a couple of years, maybe 30,000 miles. Nice! I had bought an aftermarket stainless steel cat for $35 which requires welding, but never put it in. My local mechanic said that I should have gotten the entire assembly, which would have all the angles just right.

    Just this last month, my local mechanic, not a Prius expert, said that although the battery seemed OK to him (by codes), that he would change out the air/fuel ratio sensor ("upstream" sensor) which was giving us a P0031 code. I figured that that would rejuvenate it. But:

    CURRENT CODES:
    I have an Innova 3100 code reader. it is now giving me the following codes: P0420 (CAT), P0446 (EVAP), and for the ABS system, C1259 and C1310, both complaining about the traction battery charging problems.

    P0420 P0446 C1259 C1310

    CURRENT WARNING LIGHTS: Red Triangle, ABS light, and "check engine".

    DRIVING SYMPTOMS:
    1) last time I took it on the interstate, it would go for a while, then the green/yelow "battery charging/dischargin" arrows would suddenly go black, the motor would race, and if I would pull over and shut it off, they would immediately disappear. (Someone in the forum called this "limp mode", I believe.) Just driving down the street here, it repeated this behavior after a minute or two.

    Mysteriously, the traction battery recharges without any green arrows. I am wondering whether there might be a fuse blown.

    2) Last time on the interstate, the traction battery would cycle rapidly from full to empty within minutes, maybe 4 or 5 full swings in a 40 minute drive. I suspect that I'm going to need a new battery, and "Prius Camper" suggests the "project lithium" type, which appeals to me. But there seems to be some kind of charging issue, and as I said, recently the cells checked out OK on the tester my local mechanic has.

    I'm in the process of getting Techstream, and a dongle to use on a "burner laptop". So I might be a while before responding. I have to get my Palpay working again, and I will consult TIS.

    Thanks,
    Daniel
     
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Recycling you're describing of your battery which is now around 20 years old your battery is at its end of service life my battery is end of service life ended almost exactly the same amount of years I just got finished replacing one in my 08 I have an 04 that I had to put down because of the ABS brake problem it's still sitting here with a perfect engine and transmission in it the traction battery in the 04 I took out and put in the '08 and it immediately died it was a Green tech refurbished thing that was about 3 years old so it was supposed to die I bought a brand new battery from Toyota for $1,300 online and picked it up locally the car has had no issues since that change and I'm sure that you will find this is the problem with your car when somebody that really knows how to look at the battery and the text stream papers or printouts you will see that your battery is starting to get where it cannot the going from purple to blue to green and jumping all over the place that's the classic symptom I don't really need to see anymore look up a guy not far from you call the hybrid doctor he's a great guy a personal friend of mine I've been to him he's come here to pick up cores all of that nice people sounds like you need to get with him about 700 bucks you'll be done and good to go
     
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  3. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    If you have a tired worn out battery, the charging system will likely turn off as it has nowhere to put the electricity it needs to store. So there's that.

    In all likelihood, your "not a Prius expert" local mechanic is wrong as, from what you have said, it sounds like you battery is very unhappy.
     
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  4. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    Do you have his name and number, please? I've lost track of him. Is there a way to private message on this board?
    -Daniel
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    This is typical to see when someone is using a scan tool that does not display hybrid system codes.

    The P0420 and P0446 are codes from the engine control module. Generic scan tools show those. (Cars very commonly have engines.)

    The C1259 and C1310 are codes from the brake ECU. Generic scan tools show those too (cars very commonly have brakes).

    Now, those two codes are very special in a Prius. The Prius brake ECU cooperates with the HV control ECU, and it has to know when that other ECU has any trouble codes. They exchange that information. Whenever the HV control ECU has codes, whatever codes it has, the brake ECU responds by setting C1259 and C1310.

    So, if you're using a scan tool that is too generic and doesn't know there's an HV control ECU (cars don't all commonly have that), this is what you'll see. You know there are HV ECU codes (because you can see the C1259 and C1310 from the brake ECU), but you don't know what the HV ECU codes are.

    Don't assume it can only be the battery. The HV ECU knows a couple hundred different codes, and many of them are not battery-related.

    It is best to just get a scan tool that does show you the codes that are in the HV ECU (or take the car to somebody that has one), and find out what those are.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    click on 'start a conversation' in the persons avatar. it doesn't always work though
     
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  7. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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  8. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Yes I will text it to you in a minute
     
  9. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    540 406 2313 tell him TomD from NC with the cores sent you . He's from Dominican Republic cannot rember his name . This is His phone we had some difficulties with a transaction on my end and this is the phone number that I was talking to him on while he was traveling to an electric car show in Las Vegas I believe but anyway he'll remember and he will hook you up they do nice work over there they're all Spanish speaking really good guys I met the whole crew over there
     
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  10. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    OK, given my busy schedule, I finally got around to setting up a Win 10 64-bit laptop with the cheap knock-off XHorse OBD2 interface and Techstream "softwarez". I downloaded the Autokent 64-bit driver from mhhauto, and did not install it when Windows Defender showed up "RANSOMWARE" in it-- so a word to the wise. I did however find a way to take apart the 32-bit driver from XHorse, and got that working on 64-bit. Before I ran that trick, I installed a similar driver, which obviated one of the steps for the XHorse trick. Maybe I'll put up a post on that in detail.... Nevertheless, the 32-bit driver I got from the vendor had the Sality.AZ virus in it, so I am quarantining the warez to a single "burner" laptop.

    But now I have the following new codes:
    P3000 (the ONLY code coming from the HV ECU) P0A80 and P3014.
    I am going to tear into the battery pack and inspect the bus bars. That seems to be a cheap $50 fix. And I'll look into cell #4 for the P3014 code. Will let you guys know.
    ====
    I also had gone to the junk yard and got the HV ECU, the ECM and the Network Gateway ECU out of a wreck for which I paid $70 for all three. I pulled the HV ECU based on a 2017 diagnosis of the red triangle done by an unskilled friend who worked at a dealer, and he got among other codes, a P0A1D.

    So I now wonder your opinion: should I change out the HV ECU? That code is not showing up, but maybe the unit is so old it is no longer throwing the code. Is that a possibility? Nevertheless, if it ain't broke don't fix it.....

    Comments?

    -thanks in advance; Daniel
     
  11. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    See attached "offline" healthcheck.

    And I DID read what Jack/Wrecit and others posted about CLEANING not Replacing bus bars. Does muriatic acid work as well as sulfuric acid? (HCl instead of H2SO4? and why not???) I have HCl in 4% or 28%.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    Getting the HV battery out onto the bench wasn't too bad....4 hours, not 4 minutes, though. And sure enough, I have a "green" battery-- (meaning evidence of copper corrosion.... heh!) And there is lots of dust around for me to clean, so that wasn't such a bad guess. I'll spare you the pictures. Seems a dry powder fire extinguisher went off in the car last year... and the dust got sucked into the HV battery box.....

    Oddly enough the software calls this a 2005. I've always thought it was a 2004. It has 28 cells to the battery. (!?)

    I regret I didn't get a table of cell voltages when I had it in the car. But I don't know how to do that with Techstream.... Is there a manual for the software somewhere handy?

    And I've got homework to do, on balancing cell voltages, etc. etc. Might as well since I have it out... the joys of retirement-- more "leisure" time to fill up....and fixed income budget....



    AdChoices served up an ad for human trafficking? It reads
    "Ukrainian Women Seeking Love

    Meet Ukrainian Women Ready to Move Country for Relationships
    <URL deleted>"

    And a photo of a young gal..... Sad. Yes, right here on PriusChat! I have eliminated my advertising profile, too!

    My dentist complains that Catholic Charities is involved in placing Ukrainian orphans, and he feels that this is pandering to human traffickers-- i.e., that they aren't vetting the matches they make well enough. Who knows..... I know a formerly Russian gal who is stuck in a bad marriage. Seems to me it is the same story. Her Russian Orthodoxy won't let her take the marriage vows lightly, so she suffers... toughing it out.

    Sigh.... Daniel
     
    #12 I_auto_know..., Jun 27, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
  13. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Same for all years of Gen 2, same as Gen 3, except the 28 things are modules. Error reports from the battery ECU refer to blocks. A block is two modules. Each module is six cells. There are 14 blocks, 28 modules, 168 cells.
     
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  15. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    Thanks for the quick response, ChapmanF!

    Does anyone know whether the HobbyKing/Turnigy charger is adequate for exercising the modules?
    https://bit.ly/2RrSFu4

    Do we have folks here who have actually done the pack repair?
    Thanks in advance....
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, lots of folks. you'd hhave to do a search, and a lot of reading. there isn't one clear, concise diy instruction thread
     
  17. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    I found the most important thing to me was the discharge capability - rate. Most cheaper chargers can only discharge at 5w of power per channel. That's around 0.7 amps for a 6 cell prius Ni-mh module. Multiply that by 28 modules times several charge-discharge cycles per module equals a WHOLE bunch of time.

    I went with chargers that could handle at least 10w discharge.

    I also went for the SkyRC BD250 high power discharger. It made doing load tests on modules fairly easy, and sped up the whole process some.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  18. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    Thanks for the guidance, folks. When I got the reconditioned pack installed again, I did a "life expectancy test" with the Dr Prius App, and it disappointed me back in October by saying that I have only 6.4% life left! (Gee, all that work....) See file attached at very bottom. But it was accelerating well, better than before. I parked that Prius, and ran the other one for a while, and had another problem with THAT one, and am now back to using the one with the rebuilt pack. I took it down to the Outer Banks and back from near DC, and was delighted that the on-board display was showing a lot of green, a topped-up battery.

    So today, I ran the life-expectancy test again. It took forever. I got to the end of the 900 minutes, and it wanted to keep going. So by the time I was done, it reported that the pack was in "new condition", and that I had what it thought was "103% life" remaining (!!). I didn't "share" the report before saving it, so I can't post it today...

    [It said that for more than 20 seconds I did not keep the "needle in the green", so maybe the report was somewhat incorrect ( 103%??!).] Hey, I'll take it.

    OK, so what did I do right?

    Well, I read a post on priuschat,
    https://priuschat.com/threads/how-i-recondition-cells.233861/#post-3260828
    That I could go down almost to zero. So I started by discharging to 1.2v for the MODULE. That was supposed to break up crystals in the NiMH, which it apparently did very nicely.
    That thread referenced BU-807: How to Restore Nickel-based Batteries - Battery University

    I used the Hobby King 4 cell charger, but if you can't get the SkyRC BD250 Mr_Guy_Mann recommends, maybe the Tenergy T180
    would be better than my Hobby King.
    Tenergy T180 100W Balance charger with touch screen_metal housing

    And I think I followed the YouTuber H-EV Tech for general method.




    Somewhere in there, he talks about sequencing the pack modules, taking the greatest (discharge) capacity, and marrying it to the lowest discharge capacity in each block. That way, the total capacity of each block is roughly the same, and the blocks' capacities don't diverge too much. He was the one recommending the Tenergy T180, which discharges faster than the Hobby King did.

    So with that I'll close this thread.
    Daniel
     

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  19. Panicos

    Panicos Junior Member

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    DID YOU FOLLOW THE tracy ing METHOD? Meaning, did you discharge down to 6v at 5A, 2.5A, 1.6A, 0.8A, 0.4A, 0.2A and to 5.9V at 0.1A, and then charge at 0.1A till it went 7.15V etc etc?
     
  20. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    What kind of a lot of green are you talking about? I usually see the green while it's driving down the road and it'll be green maybe 3 to 7 minutes of just driving down the road doing nothing out of the ordinary then it will flop back to blue maybe -3 bars from the top stay there for 7 to 12:15 minutes or so And if I haven't stopped it may flop back to green but it never stays on the green never ever with my old battery my new battery or anything in between stayed in the green longer than 7 to 9 minutes no matter what I'm doing and I don't think it's really made to see green very often or that much because as soon as it gets to green something starts using the battery you're going down the road you slow down whatever it is. On an old battery you'll be going from green to blue to magenta very quickly like within 5 minutes back and forth back and forth constantly going down the road saying probably running on full blast. I drove from DC to North Carolina and back my brother lives in DC and this is how my display ran the whole time from blue to green and back never seeing the magenta because it's pretty much a brand new battery and to be honest about it when the battery was put in brand new from Toyota I didn't see any green on the MFD for probably the first month and a half of ownership whether it needed charging and cycling or what was going on I don't know but my car stays in that mode that constantly shows the battery That's all that's ever there on the display so I see that flopping from green to blue as often as it happens pretty much at about 90 days into ownership all of a sudden I started rolling from blue to green a lot something I had never seen since I had purchased the battery brand new approximately 90 days earlier but because I'm never seeing the magenta I figured this is normal behavior. When I start seeing that magenta color again and then it starts rolling through that quickly from green to blue to magenta and the fan running then I'll have to be delving back into that I expect that not to go on for at least a few years The original lasted like 13 years something like that