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Helium

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, May 27, 2022.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Helium shortage disrupts celebrations – and even US weather service | US news | The Guardian

    A global helium shortage has been affecting celebrations with balloons and even the National Weather Service.

    Helium is a rare substance produced when uranium decays. Already difficult to mine, there are only a few sources in the world that produce the gas. Currently, the United States is one of the world’s largest helium producers, along with Qatar and Algeria. However, due to supply chain disruptions, including production plant closures and the 2017 embargo on Qatar, the global supply of helium has been severely affected.

    In addition to the shortage affecting various instruments and machines that require the gas to function safely, various companies have been struck with negative balloon sales. In a quarterly earnings call on Thursday, Dollar Tree executives said that they are “once again” experiencing a helium shortage which could impact its sales.
    . . .

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and a dearth of mickey mouse voices
     
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Meh.
    When the cost of a disposable 8.9 Cu Ft tank of party baloon inflators costs more than the price of the gas required to pick it up from the store THEN we will have a real 'shortage.'

    (Currently > $25 here and no fewer than 5 stores have them in stock right now)

    #click bait.
    #OK Doomer.

    The idea that there is a shortage of the second most abundant element (of normal matter?) in the universe ranks right up there with 'water shortages' in a state that terra-forms vast portions of deserts into farms.......or a planet that has so much water on its surface that it covers more than 70 percent of its surface...WITH the tiny bumps and creases.
    If the earth were more spherical and smooth, the oceans would cover the WHOLE planet with water over a kilometer deep......


    Still.....Helium WAS kinda rare once upon a time..... ;)

     
    #4 ETC(SS), May 27, 2022
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  5. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Helium shortages have been going on what? 15 years?

    there are no new sources coming online.

    In recent history one would think the government would ban its use for amusement or blimps, given its critical for all manner of things including the DOD.
     
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  6. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    As long as there is petroleum exploration and production there will be helium production.
    Since the 1920's Helium has served as a shining example of why you do NOT want dot.gov or dot.mil messing around with it...... ;)
    MOST ESPECIALLY when military contractors are involved!!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Helium_Reserve
     
  7. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Chicken and egg scenario

    Private industry didn’t become significant until the late 70’s and likely couldn’t without the governments r&d and involvement

    Prior to that it was government sourced

    Also worth noting others have tried replicating the dome and reserve and failed.

    Government trying to exit destabilized the world
    private industry was suppressed and was then unable to make up the gap.

    Classic case of do nothing or moving slowly being better than cold turkey.

    If the government had not become involved in helium we likely would have been set back 30 years and fewer helium balloons back in the day.
    The government’s involvement early meant a massive / steady supply of helium and allowed for many anscillary industries to form.
    Left to their own devices no demand no industry, no industry no applications to use said gas
     
  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Private industry will always find a profitable way to satisfy an "impossible" demand.

    TWO major examples owned by just one person!
    Tesla
    SpaceX

    When government NEEDS to regulate, they don't (Section 230)

    Helium IS a 'non renewable' resource (effectively, for now) but there IS no REAL shortage....at least not yet.
    As long as people keep poking holes in ricks looking for petrol, there probably will NOT be a "shortage" anytime soon.

    I checked prices and availability this AM. ;)

    This is about something else....(click bait, obfuscation, etc....)
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Helium is abundant, but not on earth. Eight parts per billion in earth's crust. Similarly misleading, water is superabundant at earths surface, but with 3.5% dissolved NaCl. The usefulness of such water is constrained by the cost of removing salt, which is well known and substantial.

    One reason helium shortage comes comes up from time to time is that it is capped by the same caprocks as fossil petroleum and methane. So, if industry moves away from petroleum, folks who want that to continue can say "but we need helium from there".

    Non-recreational uses (needs) for helium are high tech, growing, and not generally substitutable. Yes for blimps and I'd suppose for weather balloons (which just pop anyway). Fraction used for recreation is not obvious. It is in all the 'market analysis' one can buy for $5000 or so. But not otherwise obvious. So I cannot say if it is a red herring.
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41247-020-00072-5


    Medical uses, most importantly MRI imaging, used 30–35%
    other scientific use takes about 17%
    entertainment use (party balloons) uses 15%
    welding uses 9%
    engineering use takes 6%
    leak detection uses 5%
    other unspecified uses take about 14%
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    That was on topic, but this is not. It occurs to me that marine activities (shipping, fishing military, etc.) are more efficient in seawater than fresh because it is 2.4% denser. Boats float better. This may or may not reduce the cost of marine activities by 2.4% (who knows if it scales linearly?), but it does, by some amount.

    This is an unheralded benefit of salinity of seawater. People have been doing ocean things for a long time, so we are talking about a lot of accumulated value. Negative externalities if you wish. Just don't drink the stuff, irrigate with it, of mix with cement for concrete construction.
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The ancient Romans were using seawater for making cement, and it is part of the reason why their concrete structures are still being used today.
    Ancient Rome Concrete Mystery Solved by Scientists | Time
    Then they weren't embedding iron sticks in it.
     
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  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Yeah that pozzolano was amazing stuff.
     
  14. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    California might have to substitute sea water for everything not for drinking and cooking if they continue to flush liquid gold down the toilet and wasting 95% of the water supply on novelty foods.
     
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  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Grey water recycling (reuse.)
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I vaguely recall pyrrhotite going up before, somewhere in PriusChat's vastness.
    Anyway we are up up and away from helium here. but unless Mr. Bob throws a flag, it seems likely to continue.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    as bw likes to say, 'thread drift is inevitable'
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I would not have worked out 11% Calif water to novel-trees, had @Rmay635703 not rung that bell. PC is an invigorating place.

    ==
    I miss olden days when we had climate zanies. They helped me to focus my attention on that complicated topic.
     
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